175 Johnson starts instinly and dies instinly

[Ford06f150]

Sorry up front if I say or do any thing wrong and I'm sure this question has been brought up a lot but every place I've looked where it's been asked already know whenever updated the end letting everyone know what they found out we're how they fix the issue well I'm working on a Johnson 175 1991 j175exei. you pump the ball pushing the key to prime it and it instantly cranks and instantly dies you can turn the key again without pressing the primer and it will instantly crank and instantly die the third time you do it without the primer it will not crank and you have to press the primer again in your right back where you started it will instantly prank and instantly died three times and then you have to use the primer again. I've already rebuild the carburetors with all brand new gaskets I've even gotten brand new gas in a gas can disconnected the gas line that goes to my engine got a new gas line and bubble and ran it directly into the gas can I have put in new spark plugs. I've even used a spark tester that blinks when it's farts on every cylinder. A lot of the other forms I saw people mentioning that the fuel pump could be bad. But I disconnected the fuel line where it goes into the rail and when you turn it over gas does come out of the end of the line but I don't know what that really tells me anything or not maybe that's from the pressure created from pumping the ball?? I've been checking into getting a new fuel pump because I think it's the original one from 91 and there's a chance that the diaphragm on the inside has gotten old and no longer works I've called a few places and looked on eBay nobody has a rebuild kit for that fuel pump because it's so old and it's been updated and replace with newer models and I guess that might be my next question anybody know whether the rebuild kits will work on the original vro fuel pumps were the inside the same as every time they updated the fule pumps?? on eBay it says fits the following fuel pumps but mine's not listed and it fits the latest and the one right before. I've also seen a fuel pump that's made to replace your vro if you no longer use the oil injector and you premix your gas which is what I do the oiling system was never hooked up on this motor. But it says it will not work on a 60 degree motor although it's listed as a replacement part in the parts diagram as an option for me to buy it why would they offer it to me if it would not work on my motor but I don't know whether I have a 60 degree or a 90 degree I'm finding mixed answers on that. So my next question is anybody be able to tell me whether I have a 60 or a 90 degree??? Any information you can offer would definitely help this week I'm hoping to try having someone pump the ball as I start it people say that's the way you can test the fuel pump but all bowls are full of fuel when I undo the drain screw. and what I unplug the line like I said before and turn it over it squirts gas out but maybe squeezing the ball is what fills them up and the pressure is why I saw it come out the hose and when I actually run the engine maybe it actually ain't working?? Thanks so much shaun

 

[racerone]

Fact for you !-----Your motor is a 60 degree looper.------Sounds like it is not a fuel pump problem.----How long have you owned this machine ?----Did the problem show up suddenly ?

 

[Ford06f150]

I feel kind of dumb for leaving this part out I actually cranked it during the winter and ran it off the garden hose in the yard with absolutely no problem I let it idle for about 20 minutes before I turned it off that was two maybe three months ago. Yes I tried to go fishing about two weekends ago and I assumed everything was fine because I read it in the yard 2 months before that but when I got down to the dock it started doing this from the very beginning. I'm glad I didn't order that fuel pump even though in my diagram under my model number as a replacement fuel pump. no clue why they offer it to me and have it listed under my model number when it won't even work on a 60 degree looper which is what my model number is. Anyways I kind of was thinking it didn't have anything to do with fuel because why would the bulls be full of gas and why wouldn't shoot some gas out of the end of the fuel line when I unplugged it and turn it over to watch it squirt out. as for as how long I've owned it. My Grandpa bought the motor used around 08 my little brother inherited it when he passed away and then he moved away and the motor just sat for about 5 years with a bad stator. I talked him into giving it to me and I replace the stator and I've had it running for about the last 3 years with no major issues. But I've also replaced the starter all three coils and the power pack it may not mean much but I tried to be smart at least I thought I was and got them off of newer engines from my local engine shop. For example my coils I think came off of a 2003 should be less hours therefore in better shape. And I do appreciate your answer on it doesn't seem like fuel but I am curious to know the gas that came out of the end of the hose when I unplugged it and tried to start it is that just from the built-up pressure from squeezing the ball or is that actually from the pump pumping. I have also played around with the Killswitch when I unplug the lanyard it won't even turn over

 

[racerone]

When the engine is turning a good fuel pump squirts / pulses out fuel.----When you unplug the lanyard it should still crank with the starter.----And I do not understand why you assume that 2003 year coils are in better shape ?

 

[Ford06f150]

Another thing that may help is when I say it starts instantly with primer then can start 2 more time with out primer but nothing after that till I'm prime it. the run time goes down every time. First start run 3 sec then 2 sec then 1 sec then will not till I use primer and it starts all over 3 2 1. And that is why I was thinking maybe it's a fuel thing cuz only run it prime witch shoots gas directly in. But if it will instantly start back up without using the primer that means it didn't run out all the gas and should have run till all gone right?

 

[Ford06f150]

Well like I stated already I could be wrong for making the assumption but it's not just the coils it's pretty much all of the parts the way that I see it is the original parts on my motor are going on 30 years old if I buy a part that was made in 2003 off of a 2003 motor it's only 17 years old so I would think that's almost half as old as mine and therefore I would think it's probably better cuz it has less hours on it due to the fact that hasn't been around as long as mine at least that was the idea behind it. after a parts been used for oh so many years and eventually gives out and breaks has to be replaced not every part is going to last the same number of years but if I was to guess which part is closer to that point of finally being no good I would bet on the older part and I would think the part that's younger has a lot more life left in it if I'm wrong for assuming that I apologize but that's what I was thinking when I buy my parts. I will have to check on that idea making sure the engine still turns over when the lanyards been pulled. And when I unplug the fuel line the gas isn't squirting out as I turn it over it just pours out slowly kind of like pouring a Coke or beer from a bottle into a cup

 

[Ford06f150]

I am off work and at home and I was able to check a thing or two it does turn over with the lanyard pulled you are correct on that and the gas line as well it does pulsate I just wasn't turning it over long enough I saw gas come out the end and didn't want gas squirting everywhere so I stopped I decided to turn it over a little longer this time and let it do it for a minute and it does start to pulsate. I took a quick video of trying to start the motor and you will see if it will let me post it the first time it cranks it runs longer gradually get shorter to where it won't start at all and you can hear it just spin over but then I stopped wait a minute and press the primer and I'm right back where I started

 

[Ford06f150]

Quick update racerone mentioned that it doesn't seem like it's a fuel. And I was on the fence because gas in the carburetor bowls makes you think it's something else but at the same time maybe the gas ain't getting from the bowls to the inside of the engine either way I took his advice and try it again with some other things and when I decided to try my spark tester for a second time the first time when it cranks and died I moved on to the next cylinder this time I let it start and die three times and on the 1st cylinder after the third time I started it it quits parking I let it rest for about a minute tried it again and same thing started up three times and then quit sparking. So I'm kind of suspecting the stator somewhere I read they die slowly and I could be wrong on this but going from completely running to only starting a few times and then the next step would be not even starting once that seems like slowly declining or dying slowly but I could be wrong I'm going to pull off the flywheel and see what it looks like check the magnets maybe end up picking up another state or just seeing what happens but apparently my issue is the motor spins a couple times and then something quits generating spark.

 

[oldboat1]

I'm usually adamant about using an open adjustable tester to measure spark, but in this case you used an in-line tester to find a dropped cylinder (i.e., spark dropping out). It wouldn't hurt to measure the spark with a proper tester -- think you might find it's weak to begin with. But think you are on track. Unfortunately, could be a bad wire, coil, stator or loose magnet. Think I would check the wires first for continuity, then check coils.

But promising.....