175 Ocean Runner (1996) Fuel Flow Problem

CapeHorn

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Nov 26, 2008
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I am working on a '96 Johnson 175 Ocean Runner, Model J175EXEDB. In the summer the check engine warning alarmed at WOT. Before long it worsened and would alarm at various throttle levels. I found an obstruction in the anti-syphon valve. I have since replaced the valve and all lines back to the motor including a new primer pump and water/fuel separator filter head. I can prime and the bulb becomes hard.

Now, as soon as the engine starts and cycles through the tests, the check engine alarm signals. I have bypassed all hoses by connecting a fuel hose directly to the cone-shaped filter on the engine, which I have cleaned, and inserting it into a small gas tank. No change in alarm, so it seems the problem is with something on the engine. The engine seems to run fine, though it is smoking more than usual.

Any suggestions to confirm the problem before I start replacing parts?
 

dingbat

Supreme Mariner
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Nov 20, 2001
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Re: 175 Ocean Runner (1996) Fuel Flow Problem

Have you checked the hoses running to the vacum switch and the switch itself?
 

CapeHorn

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Re: 175 Ocean Runner (1996) Fuel Flow Problem

I have visually inspected the hoses. Is there a way to check them for leaks? Also, how do you check the vacuum switch?
 

CapeHorn

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Nov 26, 2008
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Re: 175 Ocean Runner (1996) Fuel Flow Problem

Excellent link. Thanks for providing it. I will follow the test instructions and post again.
 

CapeHorn

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Re: 175 Ocean Runner (1996) Fuel Flow Problem

Due to work schedules, I have been delayed in testing the engine further. This weekend, I followed the help instructions for testing for an air leak, etc. Before doing so, I checked all connections from the tank to the engine. All have double clamps.

With the gauge in place as described, the vacuum was 0-1Hg at idle with muffs. At first I had a few air bubbles present. After about 2 minutes no bubbles were present in the clear line. Warning alarm sounded constantly for about 10 seconds and the light remains illuminated after initial system check.

I then connected the vacuum gauge and hoses to check the fuel pump. Upon restricting the fuel line the vacuum gauge climbed to 5Hg in about 15 seconds. I repeated the test a couple of times and the check engine warning light went out. After about 30 seconds, the check engine alarm sounded again and the light illuminated. After restricting the fuel flow again, the warning light again went out for about 30 seconds before the check engine alarm sounded and light illuminated again.

I connected a clear hose directly to the filter mounted in the engine and connected it to a new primer pump and inserted a short hose directly into a small gas tank. I have confirmed that the filter in the engine is screwed in tightly (I have an inline 10micron filter/water seperater before the primar bulb). Check engine alarm sounded after initial system check.

The engine starts fine and idles fine.

Suggestions for next steps?? Dingbat suggested checking the vacuum switch. Can you advise how to do so?
 

Chris1956

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Mar 25, 2004
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28,100
Re: 175 Ocean Runner (1996) Fuel Flow Problem

That is strange behavior. The alarm seems to work opposite of the way it should. Since the signal wire to the check engine alarm is supposed to ground when it detects a vacuum in the fuel line, is it possible you have a bare spot on the wire that grounds once in a while? You might disconnect it from the vacuum sensor and test the alarm circuit by grounding the tan wire.
 

CapeHorn

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Nov 26, 2008
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Re: 175 Ocean Runner (1996) Fuel Flow Problem

Before testing the fuel pump further, I was advised to test the vacuum switch. I removed the hose connected to the vacuum switch. In theory, the alarm should not sound as there would be no vacuum. The alarm sounded continuously, though the hose was disconnected from the switch.

I then disconnected the vacuum switch connectors so it is not connected to the alarm system at all. I restarted the engine, and the check engine alarm sounded as usual.

Two questions:
Is this an acceptable way to test the vacuum switch?

If the vacuum switch is completely disconnected from the warning system, why would the check engine alarm sound?

Thanks for any help. I am really baffled.
 

Chris1956

Supreme Mariner
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Mar 25, 2004
Messages
28,100
Re: 175 Ocean Runner (1996) Fuel Flow Problem

If the alarm sounded when the vacuum sensor was disconnected, you likely have a bare spot on the sensor line (Tan/trace) wire. On my '98 I must have had a short because a lot of wires were melted together, near a connector on the port side of the motor in the lower pan. I also had some wires melted together under the dash at the PTT Gauge. Trace the sensor wire back until it exits the motor and see if you find some melting or chafing. Next check the System Check harness, under the dash.
 

CapeHorn

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Nov 26, 2008
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Re: 175 Ocean Runner (1996) Fuel Flow Problem

Thanks for the reply Chris1956.

I have checked all the connections from the engine to the center console. I did not find any wear on the wires and I unplugged and inspected all of the connectors. Everything seemed fine.

I started it again and it alarmed, as usual. On a whim, I moved the throttle just till it went into gear. I returned the throttle to neutral and shut off the engine. A little later, I restarted, and no alarm after the self-check. Ran it for a few minutes, and shut it off. Started it again and no alarm after self-check.

I have no idea why putting it in gear would have affected it--if it did. I will put it in the water Sunday afternoon and see what happens.

Does anyone know why the alarm would have stopped after putting it in gear?

Thanks for the help.
 

jonesg

Admiral
Joined
Feb 22, 2008
Messages
7,198
Re: 175 Ocean Runner (1996) Fuel Flow Problem

You might try opening the control up, is the kill lanyard integral in that unit?
loose wire, bare wire?
You might have stumbled on it.
 

CapeHorn

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Nov 26, 2008
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Re: 175 Ocean Runner (1996) Fuel Flow Problem

Didn't see any problems in the control.

A mechanic told me Saturday that this warning system was actually designed for the fitch and that I could still have an oil problem, even though only the check engine indicator was alarming. He suggested disconnecting each alarm, one at a time: check engine, oil, and heat. I disconnected the connector leading to the VRO and then reconnected. Started the engine. The alarm did not sound for several minutes. After it sounded, the problem was as before with the alarm sounding immediately when I start the engine. I disconnected the VRO again, then reconnected. Started the engine and no alarm for 2-3 minutes.

So, Engine 1, Me O. Taking it to the shop in the morning.

Thanks for the help, but I cannot figure this one out.
 

CapeHorn

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Nov 26, 2008
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Re: 175 Ocean Runner (1996) Fuel Flow Problem

I am following up to provide "The Rest of the Story" for anyone who may have similar problems to mine.

The mechanic tested the engine and had similar results to mine. He had a used vacuum switch and replaced mine. The alarm ended. He charged me $10 for the switch and an hour of labor, though he spent a couple of hours on it. I was satisfied until I put it in the water. Instant alarm as before.

A few posts on this site (or maybe other sites as I do not remember for sure) had mentioned that these engines do not like aftermarket primer bulbs. When I replaced the fuel line, I replaced the bulb with an aftermarket version, so I purchased an OEM bulb and installed it. The engine ran fine (see note below about priming the fuel system) with no alarm, except that I had to disconnect the bulb to get an initial prime on it and reconnect it to the line after any prolonged period with the engine off.

I then realized, again from a couple of great links, that previously (before I began to repair the fuel restriction) I had an anti-siphon valve. This matter is important as my primer bulb was located above the tank and horizontally connected next to the fuel-water separator. I reconfigured it so it hung more vertically and was located closer to the engine. Hanging more vertically enables the internal valves to function better, especially after I removed the anti-siphon valve and replaced it with a regular brass barb [purchased at the box store]. Problem solved.

So, if you are dropping RPMs (I dropped from 5,500 to 4,500 over a period of 2 months) and/or your check engine alarm signals, and/or your engine is more difficult to start, and/or your primer bulb is collapsing, and/or your engine has begun to smoke more and is burning more oil than usual, start with the following steps: check your anti-siphon valve, replace your fuel-water separator, make sure you have a Johnson primer bulb, check all fuel line connections (consider 2 clamps per connection and use the small ss clamps [in bags of 10 at the box store and 1/8 the price of the marine store], confirm your fuel vent hose is not clogged, and replace the fuel line from the tank to the engine if it is aged.

When you initially prime your fuel line after disconnecting it, some people seem to experience a situation where the check engine alarm will signal. A few people have reported that the alarm stops after operating the engine for a short time on the water (not with muffs). I too experienced this situation when I replaced the primer bulb.

My 175 Johnson (1996) again starts quickly, runs like it is brand new, is giving me 5,500 RPM, and has good even compression from all cylinders. This journey has been more involved than I ever expected, but I am back on the water.

Keep in mind that fuel flow problems and check engine alarms can arise from several issues, and it is possible to add one or two while you are trying to fix the original problem. You need to be systematic as you resolve your alarm.
 

mboy

Seaman
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
57
Re: 175 Ocean Runner (1996) Fuel Flow Problem

I bet it was the anti syphon valve and not the orientation of the bulb.
 
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