1954 Fleetwin WOT Issues

Crowsbeak

Cadet
Joined
Sep 18, 2016
Messages
25
Hey Guys,

First off I want to say thank you for all the great information within this forum, I have read a lot learned a ton!! Unfortunately I'm at a loss on where to go next so I'm looking for some advice.

I have a 1954 Fleetwin model 7516 I recently bought. The person I bought it from had changed the coils and condensers and cleaned the carb. He had the high speed needle dialed in but it was bucking like a bronco at low idle to mid throttle. He told me he had tested the compression and it was 72 on the top and 75 on the bottom. I put it on the boat it started on the third pull pumped water great and so I did a decarb the first weekend I had it. By the end of the decarb I was able to get it to still run good at high idle and started to settle down at low idle but was still bucking at mid throttle.

I took it home and pulled the flywheel, cleaned and adjusted the points with one of F_R's timing tools, and when I touched the ground wire on the top coil it broke at the connector. I replaced the connector put everything back together. I checked the pistons by slowly turning the flywheel against a plastic pen and no rod knock or anything rubbing under the flywheel. I then tested the spark with a tester and It was blue and jumped a 1/4 inch gap on both top and bottom. I put it back on the boat the next weekend expecting it to work great and I was able to get the low speed idle dialed back in but it but couldn't get the high. It still bucked at mid throttle and would bog down and no longer get up to full rpms at full throttle. It was like it was running on only one cylinder. I pulled the plugs (Champion JC6's) and noticed the top was oil fouled so I swapped them top for bottom , that didn't help so I tied another set of plugs I had they were NGK B6S's and the same thing happened it would idle, buck at mid throttle and bog down at wide open throttle.

Back to the bench! I put the spark tester back on before doing anything to see if maybe my point adjustments had come loose and it was still jumping a 1/4 gap. I checked all 4 plugs used over the weekend and all were sparking. So I tore the carb down. Inside it was clean enough to eat out of so I blew everything out real well replaced the cork float and put the new spring needle and gaskets on. I soaked the fuel filter and blew it out real well, cut a new fuel filter bowl gasket from some felpro as the old one was a little cracked and was off to the lake again! Got to the lake, it started up on 4th pull and no joy with the acceleration! I dialed the high speed in to where it would start to rev and back of, start to rev and back off. It finally caught and I ran it at WOT for about 10 minutes then when slowing down it bucked at mid throttle and idled pretty good at low throttle but wouldn't accelerate to full rpms again! I messed around with the needles and got it to hit full rpms two more times but it would never do it consistently, ultimately the needles always went back to the same settings when it would go but it wouldn't accelerate by just leaving them there. After the third time hitting wot I couldn't get it to do it again no matter what I did. Not knowing what else to do I pulled the bottom wire to just see if she would die, but it didn't. I put the bottom back on and pulled the top wire, it definitely ran a little smoother on one cylinder on the bottom than on the top. Plug's again black with oil after this weekends adventure but still sparking.

I run non-ethanol premium mixed at 16:1 with quicksilver full synthetic oil still on a pressurized tank that does not leak. My next thoughts are I either change the plug wires or maybe try to lean it out to to 24:1? I just don't know where to go from here so any help or suggestions would be appreciated.
 

oldboat1

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Apr 3, 2002
Messages
9,612
You may be losing your needle settings because the gland nuts are loose -- needles rattle loose. Set the mix and snug the gland nuts (not overly tight -- have to be able to adjust the needles).
 

Crowsbeak

Cadet
Joined
Sep 18, 2016
Messages
25
oldboat1, thank you for the quick reply. I had the needles snugged to where I could just turn them with my fingers and when it hit wot I snugged the high speed a touch. It seems 1/8 turn out from seated on the high and 3/4 out on the low is where it will surge and occasionally hit full rpms.
 

oldboat1

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Apr 3, 2002
Messages
9,612
Just to be sure we're on the same page, I mean the nuts that hold the needles in place after you have adjusted them. See numbers 21 and 29 in the carb diagram (first carb shown): http://www.fiberglassics.com/wiki/im...service001.pdf . In terms of adjustments, my '57 runs at about 1/2 to 3/4 out on the h.s. needle, and maybe 3/4 to 1 on the low speed. (Been a while since I used the 7 1/2 so working from memory -- but pretty much the same with the other horsepowers too.) They can vary some. Might check to see if your h.s. needle is actually seating -- old needle washer jammed up in there, maybe.
 

Crowsbeak

Cadet
Joined
Sep 18, 2016
Messages
25
Correct the packing washer nuts. I verified the high speed needle was seating when I had the carb tore down then backed it out 3/4 turn and tightened the high speed packing nut to where I could just turn the needle with the knob off before reassembling the carb. Started low speed out about 1 turn out.
 

oldboat1

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Apr 3, 2002
Messages
9,612
It's possible there is a problem with the pinion shaft down in the shock absorber on the lower shaft, if yours has that assembly. My current '57 does, although I've also had the sister model without it. The bucking you describe could be related -- think the sensation would be like a clutch dog issue rather than an ignition miss.

I use the 16:1 mix as well (run J4 plugs). I usually replace plug wires when restoring the magneto, but probably not a problem if in decent shape (need to be solid core wires). Never hurts to revisit points for cleaning and regapping, and the link and sync setting. It might be worth checking the PO's magneto work to make sure the coils are in fact fresh, and wires inserted properly -- good contact both at coil and spring connectors in boots.
 

Crowsbeak

Cadet
Joined
Sep 18, 2016
Messages
25
I will pull the flywheel and recheck everything on the magneto like you suggest and I will also put new plug wires on to eliminate that as a potential issue. The prior owner had J4's in and I threw them out after the decarb and put the J6's on due to the 16:1. Do you recommend J4's? I never thought about a non-ignition side to the bucking, to make sure I am on the same page you are talking about checking OMC part 376073 shock absorber specifically the spring correct? I have a new impeller I was going to put on, is that part accessible under the water pump? Thank you for all your help.
 

oldboat1

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Apr 3, 2002
Messages
9,612
not sure about the oem part number without some additional digging, but access is under the gear housing under the impeller. If you have the shock absorber, you also have the spring assembly up at the top of the shaft, under the powerhead. Check the diagram for parts and assembly -- could also be symptomatic. I use the J4s with the 16:1 mix without issues. I kind of use original specs for oil ratio and plugs as a test -- If the carb and ignition is working correctly, assume recommended plugs and oil ratio will work as intended, particularly with newer 2-cycle oils (burn cleaner than 30w).
 

Crowsbeak

Cadet
Joined
Sep 18, 2016
Messages
25
I want to close the loop on this in case it might help someone else. I tore the magneto down and discovered that I was missing one of my linkage assembly screws and that the armature plate retaining ring was not flat side up as I have seen recommended on these forums. I noticed the coil magnets had some minor rub damage to them, I assume this was from the wobble this allowed. I tested my coils and condensers and they all checked out all right. I replaced the spark plug wires and points. I cleaned and re-greased the magneto bushing, flipped and greased the retaining ring and reassembled. When I tested the flywheel I felt no rubbing and when I retested the spark, I could now jump a 1/2 inch gap with a sharp blue spark on both leads. I finally had an opportunity to get the motor back in a test tank yesterday and it seems to be running and idling without anymore bucking and also hits WOT without issue. Thanks to oldboat1 for his advice and am curious if anyone knows why all the exploded parts diagrams for these series of motors show the retaining ring tapered side up when it seems to work better flat side up?
 

HighTrim

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
Messages
10,486
Many people have fallen to installing it tapered side up, your motor is not the first!

Glad you got it
 
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