1958 Ward Sea King 35hp (Johnson)..low compression and rusty lower unit: abandon now?

[kbaum]

Hi, I am looking for advice on an older motor. Found lots of helpful info throughout the site, especially "Top Secret".

Background: Got a 1963 16' Starcraft Stardust and this motor came with it. Model # is GG8997A, similar to Johnson RD-19 as I have gathered from other posts.

Motor would not rotate (would move a bit, so I knew it wasnt seized). Drained the lower unit and rusty water came out. Tore down the lower unit and started cleaning it up.

Propeller shaft, pinion gears and bearings cleaned up reasonably well. Drive shaft was frozen solid due to rusting of bearing (see pic..thrust bearing?). Spent a bunch of time and finally got the upper pinion gear out. Pulled the c-ring from the bearing and took the bearing pins out and cleaned them up with metal polish. I would replace this bearing, but I dont htink I can get it out without a fancy $$$ tool. Plus, a guy I talked to on the phone said it would be ~90$ for a new bearing even if I could get it out.

So, question #1: Is polishing the bearin pins a reasonable thing to do, even if it is just temporary to see if this engine is gonna work?

Once I got the lower gear unit off, the engine turned over fine. I ran a compression test but had to do it with the pull cord and not the electric starter. I got just about 85psi in each cylinder after about the 4-5 pull: additional pulling made no difference.

So, question #2: Is 85 psi reasonable in terms of expecting this motor to work decently? The cylinders were virtually identical in reading so I guess thats good.

Finally, Question #3: Given the bearing issue and the possible low compression, is it worth spending the money on trying to seal up (i.e. fix the cause of the rust in) the lower unit, so that I can try a real test on the engine? I have ordered a parts book for this motor (1958 Johnson RDE RDEL 19C), so I am not sure what the different parts I need are called. But basically, to seal this thing up I need the seal that goes between the cast peices that houses the prop shaft, the seal that attaches the lower unit to the upper unit, the seal at the front end of the propellor shaft, the seal for the shift rod, and two o-rings for the drive shaft. My guess is that thes seals plus a new impellor is probably gonna run me about 100$. Is it worth spending this just to see if the motor is gonna work? (PS, I did pour a little gas into the carb just to see if it was getting spark...I did get some pops and smoke, so I assume the ignition system is at least working in part). I dont yet have a battery and there are some electrical things to work out, thats why I could only compression test with the pull cord.

Any comments and/or advice is greatly appreciated!

 

[boobie]

Re: 1958 Ward Sea King 35hp (Johnson)..low compression and rusty lower unit: abandon

Due to what's wrong with it I think I would part it out and find something better.

 

[steelespike]

Re: 1958 Ward Sea King 35hp (Johnson)..low compression and rusty lower unit: abandon

Compression is low but may improve with a decarb treatment with sea foam or some similar treatment.It will run at 85 psi.100 psi is considered minimum ideal pressure.
Before going on you may want to remove the flywheel and check the coils.Any cracks or discoloration. will require replacement.You need to replace the bearing. Someone better informed may be able to tell you how to get it out.You may find a replacement at an industrial supply
where you can get seals and bearings for a lot less money.What ever you do don't junk it.
You may be able to test by rigging up water as it is.

 

[lindy46]

Re: 1958 Ward Sea King 35hp (Johnson)..low compression and rusty lower unit: abandon

You could hook up a garden hose to the water tube and try to get the motor started. If it runs, decarb it and see what happens to compression. If you can get compression up to around 110psi (using electric start), then I'd look for a replacement lower unit. If it doesn't run and needs coils and other ignition parts, and a carb rebuild to get it running, then you'll end up with more money invested than what it's worth once you replace the lower unit. You didn't say why the electric start wasn't used for the compression test. Is that not working?

 

[kbaum]

Re: 1958 Ward Sea King 35hp (Johnson)..low compression and rusty lower unit: abandon

Thanks for the input. I dont have a battery yet, so I tried just using jumper cables to see if the starter would work. It did engage and spin the motor, but very slowly. I will try to oil the moving parts on the starter and let it sit for a day or two to see if that does the trick...will also double check all of the electrical connections to the starter to make sure they are good.

I just picked up a battery and some sea foam last night. I will try to do the garden hose thing and follow the decarb instructions in "TOP SECRET".

A question on Sea Foam and decarb: When I add the Sea Foam to 1 gallon of gas to run through the motor, do I also add 2-stroke oil to the 1 gallon of gas as well?

I was gonna try the decarb today, but unfortunately it snowed last night and is too cold still...will wait for a warmer day later this week to give it a try.

I should also note that my compression checker is a cheapie. That said, I did hook it up to my compressor and it was reading the same as the reg on the compressor. 85psi is understanably low, but I am still hopefull since the reading was about identical on each cylinder.

 

[lindy46]

Re: 1958 Ward Sea King 35hp (Johnson)..low compression and rusty lower unit: abandon

You need to add the proper amount of oil to the gallon of gas along with the Seafoam. But when you run the gallon of gas through the motor, it really needs to be on the boat and in the water. I would just put some Seafoam in the cylinders with the spark plug holes pointing up and let it soak a few days. That will help free the rings and should bring compression up. 85psi isn't all that bad by just pull starting the motor by hand. I think that motor has a pressure relief system to make it easier to pull-start, so you won't get an accurate reading anyway. Results should be higher with the electric start. When you oil that starter, don't overdo it. Just a few drops of light machine oil is all it takes. You don't want oil running down inside the starter.

 

[kbaum]

Re: 1958 Ward Sea King 35hp (Johnson)..low compression and rusty lower unit: abandon

OK, sounds good. Is the compression release system the two springs (one located near the spark plug on each cylinder)? If so, there doesnt seem to be any linkage or mechanical way that these are engaged/diengaged, and they seem that they would only release vacuum pressure, not compression.

Apologies for not knowing more about this motor and the proper terminology....I have not gotten the manual yet (I have worked on newer merc OB's before, and they were very different from this...much more complicated and intimidating

 

[JB]

Re: 1958 Ward Sea King 35hp (Johnson)..low compression and rusty lower unit: abandon

Sounds like a lost cause to me, kbaum. Too many things terminal. Too many things that don't match the Johnny. It isn't a Johnny, BTW, it is a Gale. There are differences.

Of course it just might be a super challenging project.

 

[samo_ott]

Re: 1958 Ward Sea King 35hp (Johnson)..low compression and rusty lower unit: abandon

Yes, that is the compression relief but the rod from the pull starter is missing so it's not working (and not really needed if you have the electric starter). I'd be ok with 85psi a side with the pull starter. That's pretty good actually pulling by hand. If the electric starter is slow they are usually easy to fix. You have to take it apart though, sand the communtator and all contacts lightly, and blow it clean and then reassemble. I find it easy to get most starters up and running this way.

It's likely you will need 2 coils ($20 each) and a carb kit as most engines do. The lower unit does not look too bad in my opinion but you did not remove it. You will need a LU kit. It looks like you just dropped the skeg. Much easier to remove the whole thing and work on it upside down or putting the gears back in will be real tough. You should be able to hook up a hose to the water intake tube (if you drop the LU AND drive shaft) to test it out. It'll be noisy though not being in the water. Post better pics if you can.

Finally, I have the parts manual for the RD19 but I'm not sure it's what you have unless I see better pics of the engine. If you want it PM me your email address and request.