1959 Evinrude "Fat 50" ignition trouble

[rfevans]

I have a new to me 59 50 hp that I am trying to get back up and running. I bought a boat from a children's cancer donation center 500 miles or so from the house anyway the donation center know's nothing about the history of the boat or motor so I am blind per say about its history. The motor was not a deal breaker for me I have another engine if this does not work out but I think its worth a try for originality sake the boat,motor and trailer are all 59s. Here's what I've done so far
.
1 Check compression, ended up being 92 lbs on all cylinders but one and it was 90 so that was pretty good I thought
2 Checked the lower unit seems to shift fine and the gear looked great but will get changed.
3 Checked over my wiring looking for and degraded stuff there and so far the only one is the choke wire right at the solenoid I wrapped with electrical tape for now.
4 Changed plugs and thru the window on top cleaned and checked the point gap. But no spark.

I did notice that post on the side of the distributor was loose so I took the cap off and tightened it up still no spark while I had it off i cleaned up the rotor and the cap itself and re installed. still no spark. So thats were I am at this point I have a manual witch will get a good reading again tonight. This is my third magneto to work on I rebuilt the one on my 15 hp 55 rude and its the best running engine Ive ever had the other was a 33 hp that got a good point cleaning at that was it so I by no means a pro. This one looks a intimidating to me so its got me worried but we'll see. Anyone with any trouble shooting guidance here would be great. Any and all reply's welcome thanks in advance...

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1959 Evinrude "Fat 50" ignition trouble

Check the spark directly from the coil output button. If you have spark there but none at the plug terminals, in all probability the rotor is shorting out to the metal shaft upon which it sits. Rotor #580260, the business end of which looks like a weird hook. The spark should easily jump a 1/4" gap with a strong blue lightning like flame... a real SNAP!

Do not attempt to install rotor #580338 which has a normal automotive type business end... the two do not interchange!

 

[rfevans]

Re: 1959 Evinrude "Fat 50" ignition trouble

Thanks Joe I actually have a tune up kit for the engine including the cap points and condenser I found under the front seat. Looks like a oem tune up kit I need to check the part numbers to be sure. Now for the stupid newbie question hows the best way to check off the coil button? Will a jumper between the button and my spark checker work. I did examine the coil before it got dark tonight removed it and looked over good it looks good no cracks like the 15 hp I had and replaced.

 

[rfevans]

Re: 1959 Evinrude "Fat 50" ignition trouble

I was looking at the parts breakdown and noticed I may be missing a piece of the puzzle. in the cap itself is a hole with a spring but no brush. Does the brush sit on top of the spring? The parts break down I am looking at is not real clear. If so its not in there. I am going to rig something up to check spark off the coil button today and go from there.

 

[Chris1956]

Re: 1959 Evinrude "Fat 50" ignition trouble

OK, that motor has 2 sets of points and a single condenser. Are both sets of points clean and gapped properly? Is the wire connecting them rubbing the pully? It is a common problem. Does the coil have any cracks in the plastic? Is it securely grounded? The bolt that sticks thru the dist housing, and connects to the point wire, cannot touch the dist case or it grounds out the spark. Disconnect the ign killer wire (thin black one on dist bolt). If all else fails replace the condenser. Dist cap should have carbon elctrode on spring to contact coil button.

 

[rfevans]

Re: 1959 Evinrude "Fat 50" ignition trouble

Thanks Chris for the reply the points are good and cleaned with a points file and then alcohol then gapped to manual specs and they look very good to start with no pitting or dark spots. The coil looks new as well no cracks anywhere wires off the coil are good no shiners or cracking or dry rotted sheath. The stud that goes thru the dist was loose to start with so I dissembled checked the insulators cleaned contacts and re-installed. Ignition killer wire is taken loose. If there is suppose to be a carbon electrode you speak of is suppose to sit on top of the spring in the dist cap then it is missing in action there lies part of the problem the parts breakdown I have is pretty fuzzy so I can't tell the order of that area. I called the dealer this morning and he has that part so this afternoon I'll pick that up and a new condenser then check spark of the coil button and re-install this afternoon and see what I have..Thanks for the help....

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1959 Evinrude "Fat 50" ignition trouble

The spring that goes against the coil button needs no brush.

The spring that goes against the rotor DOES require the carbon brush.

Coil spark test.... wire from coil button to one of the spark tester terminals... other spark tester terminal connects to ground.

 

[rfevans]

Re: 1959 Evinrude "Fat 50" ignition trouble

Thanks Joe that really clarified it for me...Looks like someone before me has been in this one and I am missing the spring to the coil button and the carbon brush that goes against the rotor...The dealer has the spring and Carbon brush that contacts the rotor but not the other spring that contacts the button do you know if they are the same spring the dealer claimed they were no longer available tho I clearly found them online? Thanks again that was Huge help....

 

[Chris1956]

Re: 1959 Evinrude "Fat 50" ignition trouble

Probably any spring that fits, will work to connect the coil button to the cap. It was made to friction fit into the cap.

 

[boobie]

Re: 1959 Evinrude "Fat 50" ignition trouble

First thing to do is get some spark coming out of the coil with the dist cap off. Then worry about the dist cap.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1959 Evinrude "Fat 50" ignition trouble

First thing to do is get some spark coming out of the coil with the dist cap off. Then worry about the dist cap.

Yep.... What Boobie said!

Then..... Find a spring that fits securely into the hole of the distributor cap to fit against the coil button as it is not available since 1988.

Coil button spring = 510331. (N/A 1988)

Brush & Spring = 580291. If you have a problem locating this item, I have one left ($19 plus shipping). Try this site first, then your local dealer.

 

[boobie]

Re: 1959 Evinrude "Fat 50" ignition trouble

Joe, you got a PM.

 

[rfevans]

Re: 1959 Evinrude "Fat 50" ignition trouble

Well one step forward and 2 back. Work got in the way of my hobby yesterday I did manage to get the dealer and they had the spring and carbon brush but no spring for the button. By the time I got home it was dark so I could not do much with it. So I went ahead and pulled the dist completely off to work on today. When I pulled the dist I noticed the plug wires on one bank were loose acting at the dist cap itself sure enough they were just stuck in the cap no screw on terminals like the manual says. So looks like another trip to the dealer and see if he has those. I wish I would have noticed that before now..lol. Today I'll head to the hardware store and auto parts store and pick up some new spark plug wire and see if I can find a spring to match up to coil button. I'll also rig up to check spark off that coil and see how it goes. From reading other threads here last night I should be able to check for spark with it off. I did notice that in couple other threads that a few guys here mention something about lubing the bearings in the dist. Is that something I should do while I have this off? And if so what should I lube with... Thanks guys for the help I really appreciate it...

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1959 Evinrude "Fat 50" ignition trouble

I suspect that some of the non dealer outboard repair shops might just have a damaged dist cap that contains one of those springs... maybe not but worth a shot. Also, the following may be of interest to you.

(Replacing Screw In Type Plug Wires)
(J. Reeves)

It's next to impossible to find replacement spark plug wires for the older engines that have the brass screw in terminals which screw into a distributor cap. The solution to correcting a spark plug wire (or a coil wire in some cases) of this type is as follows:

Purchase however many brass screw in terminals as you may require (OMC Part #510364). Price is about $1.75ea. If you also need the spark plug boots and the spring terminals that connect to the spark plugs, purchase them also (OMC Part #581027). This includes one boot and one spring connector. Price is about $3.25ea.

Purchase whatever amount of spark plug wire you need. Be sure to purchase the kind that has a steel twisted wire leading through the center of it....... not the carbon type plug wire that many automobiles now use.

Have a piece of 2"x4" handy or any other piece of wood that will suffice, and if you have a vise, clamp that piece of wood in it. Punch or drill whatever amount of holes you want in the top portion of the wood...... you want a almost perfect size hole that you can easily screw one of the brass screw in terminals into. I normally use just one hole, reusing it as many times as necessary. The terminal should screw or push in easily so that removal is just as easily...... but you do want the terminal to be held securely.

Using your old plug wire, cut the new wire to a length about one inch longer. If you have no old plug wire, just make sure that the wire is longer than you'll need as you can trim the other end later. The end that the brass screw in terminal will go on... cut the insulation back about 1/4". With your finger, seperate the wire strands so that they are seperated and angled off at about a 45? angle when viewing the wire being held straight up. Tint those wires with electrical solder, then fold them down against the wires insulation, cutting the excess of so that the wire ends do not extend past the circumference of the wires insulation, meaning..... holding the wire dead on, those tinted wires form a circle.

NOTE: Electrical solder is 60% Tin and 40% lead with a Rosin Flux Core, available just about anywhere.

Before doing any solder work on the brass terminal, check to make sure that the wire you've just prepared will slide into the brass terminal withough being forced.

With a hand held propane torch with a pencil tip, heat the brass terminal just hot enough to fill it with "Electrical Solder". Do not use any other type solder. Do not overheat the terminal. When the solder is a liquid, filling the brass cup, having the prepared spark plug wire handy, insert the prepared wire end into the melted solder within the terminal..... and hold it there for a few seconds to have the connection secure. That should take care of the screw in brass terminal end. Use "Caution" as that melted solder could spit out somewhat as the wire is shoved into the brass terminal.

The above procedure also holds true for the engines that have "Battery Capacitance Discharge" ignition, which is a fancy name for a battery operated powerpack.... quite a few engines in the 1968 to 1972 range. That would be the type that has one coil whereas the coil wire screws into a distributor cap located under the flywheel.

The rubber boot, spark plug end.... With the wire cut to the length required, trim back 1/4" insulation again but do not solder tint the wires. Simply fan out the wires and fold them back against the insulation, cutting the excess off as explained above. Holding the spring wire terminal, estimate where the prong should be inserted so that the spring will be flush against the exposed wire. Hold the spring terminal away from the wires end (sideways) and insert the prong into the insulation and into the center wire, then swing the spring terminal in front of the exposed wire portion (makes a tight fit for continuity purposes).

Spraying the inner portion of the boot where the wire will insert with a small amount of WD40 makes the installation of the wire a easy project. That's it.... you're done.

 

[rfevans]

Re: 1959 Evinrude "Fat 50" ignition trouble

Thanks Joe thats some excellent info on the wires. Yesterday with the dist off I rigged up to check for spark off the button on the coil and spark is weak not visible by looking and no snap. I replaced the condenser before I started. I took the points back off again sanded them down with emery cloth and re installed re gapped the points and spark was still weak. Now this was turning by hand and I dont know if if rpms makes a difference on that or not. I used a punch to turn the dist and I ended up touching the button with my hand to see if I had anything spark wise only way to know if I had anything because it was not visable. I have a digital multi meter but from reading around looks like it will not work for checking the coil you guys can correct me on that if I am wrong. Somewhere in the shed I have a old analog meter if I can find it and check the coil. I know this means nothing but I visually inspected that coil and it looks new to me. Anyway thats were Im at for now thanks for the replys....

 

[Chris1956]

Re: 1959 Evinrude "Fat 50" ignition trouble

Even turning the distributor pully by hand should give a heathly spark. Is the coil ground wire clean and tight?

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1959 Evinrude "Fat 50" ignition trouble

As Chris mentions above.... turning (spinning) the magneto pulley by hand should cause the coil to emit a strong blue lightning like spark that would jump a good 1/4" or 3/8" gap.

I assume you're turning that pulley in the proper direction but just in case.... looking directly down at the pulley, it must be turned in a clockwise direction.

Also, the wire from the coil that leads to and thru the hole in the port side of the magneto (leads to ign switch or kill button)..... that hole is lined with a fiber insulation that has a fiber insulated washer on both sides. One washer being a separate item with the other being part of the sleeve insulation. It must be there, otherwise there's no question that wire is going to short out.

 

[rfevans]

Re: 1959 Evinrude "Fat 50" ignition trouble

Thanks guys clockwise is how I have been turning checked that by pulling the hand cord before and as far as the stud thru the dist it has 2 parts a sleeve with sort of a flange to the inside and a big fiber washer outside just to be sure I made another fiber washer for the inside as well still no change or spark yet. I even changed to a brand new pair of points this morning and emery clothed them and re- set the gap and still nothing... Looks like I am coil bound.. I did find my analog meter thinking about trying to check it at this point. Little discourged right now to say the least..Anyway thanks again for the posts.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1959 Evinrude "Fat 50" ignition trouble

The point gap..... on the high lobe... should be adjusted so that a .020 gauge will go thru but a .022 will not.

 

[rfevans]

Re: 1959 Evinrude "Fat 50" ignition trouble

Thanks Joe that's how gapped it. I bit the bullet and ordered a new coil for what it's worth. Thanks again