1963 Evinrude Sportwin Knocking noise after ignition coil replacement

[Chadbud]

Hi guys! So I decided to start a separate thread for this issue.

This engine was running before the coil replacement.. but only on one cylinder so it had about half power. One of the coils was totally dead and the other was on its last leg. So I replaced both of them and the points/condensers.

Here's the new problem:
After replacing them, I reinstalled the magneto plate cover and pull starter and took the motor out to give it a first test run after the work. After pulling it for a minute or two I got it to fire up! The motor idled pretty nicely for a little while but I noticed a knocking/mentally banging noise start to get louder.

My first instinct was that it may be something inside the magneto where the coils are.. maybe the edge of the coils hitting the edge of the plate or something? I haven't checked yet but I'm pretty sure they were perfectly snug. I turned the plate a few times after the install too just to make sure it turned smoothly.

My worst fear is that it's the cylinder that wasn't running before the ignition coil replacement.. but that doesn't make sense because it wasn't making the noise before the work was done.

I also noticed that you can hear the noise slightly even when just the pull starting cord is pulled on like you're trying to start the motor. I tried to demonstrate this in a video so you guys can hear it. I can also record a quick short video of the motor running if you guys think it would help to diagnose this issue.

Video: https://youtu.be/mu88fLnxNa0

So that's it. What do you guys think? Is there something I missed? I didn't do any timing adjustments on the throttle roller cam or anything.. I didn't really see a need but idk maybe that's causing an issue? I gotta get this sorted out soon so I can return a few rental tools.

Thanks for the help guys! Can't wait to hear from ya.

 

[RCO]

Did you adjust the coils so the laminations were even with the mounting flange?

 

[racerone]

Sounds like flywheel is hitting coil laminations.------But you could also remove bypass covers and look for loose bearings that way.

 

[Joe Reeves]

********************
(Magneto & Driver Coil Alignment)
(J. Reeves)

To align the coils properly, have the metal vertical portion of the coil yokes aligned with the inside edge of the bevel that exists on the top portion of the aluminum seat upon which the coils sit. This creates the proper distance between the coils and the flywheel magnets. Faulty alignment creates friction and the yokes of the coils heat up, turn blue and expand.
********************

 

[racerone]

Was flywheel nut torqued down to 45 FT-LBS ?

 

[Chadbud]

Hey guys! Thanks for the replies! So it seems everyone is thinking it's the coil mountings hitting the ignition plate as it spins around. I also think this probably the cause. So today I plan to open it back up and make sure they are have plenty of clearance from getting struck. I had made them flush before (tested by running my fingernail across and it didn't catch) but perhaps I didn't put them down tight enough to withstand motion of magneto? Anyway, I'll definitely try fixing their positioning.

Also racerone no I did not torque the flywheel nut down with a torque wrench. I just simply tightened it with a wrench as much as I could (was difficult because the flywheel wants to move). Could the flywheel nut being not tight enough cause something like this?

If anyone else has ideas please let me know! I'll update you guys on Monday if the suggestions fix the issue! Thanks!

 

[Chadbud]

Was flywheel nut torqued down to 45 FT-LBS ?

Okay guys so it was definitely the loose flywheel nut. It wasn't tight enough.. but I tightened it down much harder and now the noise is gone!

However now I have problem number 2:

Something is wrong with my throttle... I'll post a video here showing you guys what's going on.. the engine idles nicely but only at maximum throttle (handle turned all the way to the left). In other words, I can't increase acceleration/throttle at all past what seems like idling rpms. Is there something I did while replacing coils that caused this?? I did temporarily remove the throttle linkage but put it right back on. (That little silver clip thingy on the swingy arm). Perhaps loosening the throttle cam and trying to adjust it would help?

Please let me know what you guys think! Here's the video:

https://youtu.be/43DMjHe77Xs


You can see in the video towards the end half that the cam roller is just a little to the left of the marking line on the throttle cam. This is when the throttle handle is fully turned to the left.. yet the RPMs don't seem very high.

 

[racerone]

It has to be in gear to get full throttle !

 

[Joe Reeves]

Go to any automotive parts type store and ask them about a "Chain Link" type pulley holder. This is used on outboard flywheels that DO NOT have teeth along the edge for an electric starter. If the chain isn't long enough, it can be added to.

For flywheels that DO have teeth, use a flywheel tooth that auto mechanics use to turn the flywheel when installing a manual shift clutch and clutch pressure plate. We simply call it a spanner wrench.

 

[Chadbud]

It has to be in gear to get full throttle !

I tried it in all gears, I can't get more throttle than what you see in the video.

@Joereeves I'm confused, I do have the flywheel without teeth.. but is this part your talking about a replacement for that swinging arm on the right side of flywheel that moves when I turn throttle? If so, I'm wondering why I would have to replace such a part.

You guys know the line on the roller cam that you can see towards the end of my video? does that have anything to do with why this is happening?

 

[tomhath]

Check that the tiller handle is engaging the throttle linkage correctly; when the tiller is raised it might slip a few teeth.

Another way to hold the crankshaft is to pull the spark plugs, pick the cylinder that's starting to raise the piston when you try to turn the nut, and stuff the cylinder full of rope (like clothesline) through the spark plug hole. The piston can't get all the way to the top of its stroke and stops (kind of like hydro-locking it).

 

[Joe Reeves]

Joereeves I'm confused, is this part your talking about a replacement for that swinging arm on the right side of flywheel that moves when I turn throttle? If so, I'm wondering why I would have to replace such a part.

You're confused?..... I'm confused. I have no idea what you're speaking of.

In my first post, I'm telling you how to align the coil(s) on the armature plate.

In my second post, I' telling you how to keep the flywheel from turning when you tighten the nut.

 

[Chadbud]

You're confused?..... I'm confused. I have no idea what you're speaking of.

In my first post, I'm telling you how to align the coil(s) on the armature plate.

In my second post, I' telling you how to keep the flywheel from turning when you tighten the nut.

Oh I'm sorry! I'm trying to figure out the Throttle issue and my head was just totally fixed on that and not the flywheel nut torque still. I did manage to use the tool you're speaking of on the flywheel (was some sort of belt wrench) from the auto store. This stopped the knocking noise.

Now I'm just trying to figure out why my throttle is all goofed up. Like I said before and as I show in the video I most recently linked, when I have the throttle handle turned all the way to the left I barely have RPMs higher than idle speed. It's as if the butterfly on the carb isn't opening up enough at WoT on the tiller handle. Let me know why you guys think this may be. It's not slipping any teeth or anything.

 

[Tim Frank]

Okay guys so it was definitely the loose flywheel nut. It wasn't tight enough.. but I tightened it down much harder and now the noise is gone!

.

There was a very good reason that racerone said to tighten the nut to 45 ft.lbs. => it is a critical spec.
Beg, borrow, or buy a torque wrench so you get this right. Failure to do this is the main cause of shearing a flywheel key which can in a split second ruin the top of your crankshaft.
For practical purposes that would render your motor as scrap.

 

[Joe Reeves]

1963 Sportwin?..... Memory fails me..... HP ??

 

[racerone]

Sportwin was always the 10 / 9.5 hp model

 

[AlTn]

suggestion for setting the wot position for the throttle plate...reach inside the carb throat and position the throttle plate to an exact horizontal position...at this point either scratch or use a marker on the side of the carb to mark the location of the roll pin relative to the carb body < on yours it's on the right side as you face the carb >.. shifter in forward, twist the throttle handle to wot.....lastly, adjust the set screw on the linkage that links the roller to the timing cam < roller should be 1/2 or 2/3 the way up the timing cam when the throttle plate is horizontal >...go back to the idle position and note the location of the roller and throttle plate...with the motor running, is this something you can live with?...if the idle is too high, adjust linkage as needed until the throttle plate is closed in the carb throat..does this setting still allow the throttle plate to get to wot position? That's what you are trying to attain..a low idle as well as the wot position...the carb roller may never get to the end of the timing cam, but it really doesn't need to.