1969 Evinrude Fastwin 18HP troubles

[870 Expressmag]

First off let me get a few things out of the way. My dad and I are small engine mechanics and we run a dealership. We dont have much experience with outboards but plenty with two strokes. I just bought this motor with a boat about a month and a half ago. The motor would run only on choke. The previous owner had disassembled the carb and said he didnt know how to adjust low speed jet on top when reassembling and couldnt ever make it run right. So i disassembled carb and cleaned. It wasn;t bad but there was a slug of something in bottom of bowl in front of main jet. Cleaned and put all back together. Top spark plug hole was partially stripped, so we removed the head, helicoiled it, shellaced the head gasket and reassembled. Put in barrel of water and ran it and got the low speed adjusted. Water pump worked good and everything was good. put new rope on recoil. Put motor on the boat and headed to lake, forgot battery so we had to pull start, started first pull at dock. Ran excellent. Started first pull everytime we moved after fishing. Took it out a second time and started noticing a small issue when idling, but didnt seem to effect much. Also noticed motor seems to sound really good when getting boat on plane and for first few minutes of WOT, but then sounds like it slows or strains a little half way acrossed lake then will smooth back out. Never have a problem when starting from still position in getting it wound up and going. But if we turn or hit some choppy water it seems to slow it down. I figured it was because me and my buddy are bigger, 6'0 300lbs. He was in middle seat i was in back. Boat is a 15ft meyers . So i started wondering if maybe since the boat is wider than most, beam is about 58" that it was not enough motor for the boat. But now it's getting hard to start even with elec start, and doesnt want to idle. once warmed up it idles a little better, but will usually idle up a little faster right before it kinda pops and then tries to die. I took cowl off this morning and noticed what looks like a thin stream of oil slung around inside. Top seal leaking and flywheel slinging it? Could this possibly also be a small air leak? And then i noticed a small amount of oil running down head from spark plug hole we helicoiled, which would mean it's not totally sealing, compression loss be part of power problem? Also shouldn;t the oil be burning off? took out bottom plug and it has oil on threads, electrode and porcelin look good, but no oil on head from this hole. I am using Quicksilver Premium 2cycle oil. Also we didn;t do anything to points and i am sure last owner didn't either. Thoughts before we tear into it? thanks for any help.

 

[kfa4303]

Re: 1969 Evinrude Fastwin 18HP troubles

Hi 870. Welcome to iboats. Great old motor you've got there. I have a '66 20 hp, which is virtually identical. Two 300 lb guys in a 15 ft. boat is about the max that motor is going to push, but it should get you on plane and run reliably, if nothing else. Assuming the compression is good (+80-90 psi with both cylinders being within 10% of each other) all the rest can be fixed with ease. I would compression test both cylinders using the electric starter, just to see what you're working with. If it's ok and fairly balanced, I would move on to spark and fuel. It sounds like you already went through the carb and got it dialed in pretty well, which really only leaves spark. It wouldn't hurt to remove the flywheel and rebuild the ignition. You can get a "tune up" kit right here at iboats for about $20. You may also want to replace the s'plug wires. Be sure to use 7mm copper core wires too. You probably have some in your small engine shop now. If not, NAPA often sells it for a few bucks a foot. Make sure you twist them onto the new coils posts, rather than just poking them in place. Once the ignition is all put back together you should get a bright blue spark capable of jumping a 1/4" gap. Be sure you use Champion J6C plugs as well. You can also try to find where the oil is coming from while you have the flywheel off. If the crankcase really is leaking, it may not be worth the effort to seal it up, but you can often find old 18 hp powerheads online. Here are some great links to help you with a basic tune up from top to bottom. Holler if you get stuck.

http://www.marineengine.com/parts/johnson-evinrude-parts.php?year=1969&hp=18&model=18903B

http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/06/columns/max/index6.htm

http://www.leeroysramblings.com/johnson_E-FD_15_18hp.html

http://www.outboard-boat-motor-repa...on 3 HP 1952-1967 Ignition System Tune-up.htm

http://www.outboard-boat-motor-repa...hnson 5.5 HP 1954-1964 Carburetor Tune-UP.htm

 

[870 Expressmag]

Re: 1969 Evinrude Fastwin 18HP troubles

thanks for the info! I will check compression tonight, that should tell me if the helicoil is in fact seeping off some compression. but i bet it will since there is oil running down head from the helicoiled plug hole. Why would oil be not burning off? in our industry if you get oil seeping out of mufflers it's usually a sign of cheap oil, but i was under the impression quicksilver was good stuff. As far as the oil slung inside the cowl, i looked at it again and it appears to be grease, dont know where it would have came from, but it's definately not oil like i thought before. On the plugs, i am using J19LM's, i see J4C and J6C and J8C a lot, am i supposed to be using one of those instead? reason? i know in small engines the j19lm replace the J8 thats why i put them in there.
BTW mine is an 18902B

 

[nwcove]

Re: 1969 Evinrude Fastwin 18HP troubles

stay with the j6's or j4's, any hotter than the 6 you may have a meltdown. i also notice that you put the old headgasket back on? they are a single use item, and should be replaced anytime the head is removed....no sealant required.

 

[AlTn]

Re: 1969 Evinrude Fastwin 18HP troubles

J6C is as hot as I'd go....possibly water cooled vs. air cooled?...I dunno either other than I've read that OMC designed them around champion plugs.

 

[kfa4303]

Re: 1969 Evinrude Fastwin 18HP troubles

yeah, Champion J4C or J6C, but no hotter. Trying to find equivalences in other brands is a pain in the butt and sometimes causes problems. Stick with the Champions. I use J6C's in my '66 20 hp Johnson and they work great. Don't worry about the oil coming out of the exhaust for now. That's actually pretty normal, especially if it's only running on one cylinder. Your test tank will get pretty yucky too, but that's also normal. Once you've got it dialed in on the water in will be much better. I run on crystal clear rivers at idle in manatee zones for hours almost every weekend using 24:1 mix (just regular old Pennzoil marine 2-stroke oil in the gallon jug from Wally World) with Champion J6C plugs and make virtually no smoke and/or oil slick, except for a blue puff on start up. People joke around and call these old motors "2 smokes", but once you get them set up, they actually smoke very little and modern marine oil burns a lot cleaner than it used to. Keep us posted on your progress.

 

[870 Expressmag]

Re: 1969 Evinrude Fastwin 18HP troubles

yes i re-used the old head gasket, i realize they are a one use item, but on some things we have had good luck using indian head shellac and letting gasket stay stuck to whatever side it wanted to on removal, shellac it and putting head back on, do it on farm tractors etc. Anyways thats not my problem.
I dont have oil coming from exhaust, well i may but i havn't noticed it, it's coming from around the top spark plug and running down cylinder head. I did a compression test tonight, top cyl with helicoil has 125psi, lower cylinder has 123psi. I'd say thats pretty good. But i still cant figure out why oil seeps out around top plug, and if i might still be loosing compression around top plug. When we helicoiled the top hole we got the threads a little crooked, not bad but noticeable. The plug gasket seats but not perfectly so i think i am getting it around there. I will switch to J6C plugs, i know j19LM were specifically made for Lawn Mowers hence the "LM". I tried to check the points and coils but i forgot to bring a puller home from work and the tap on crankshaft, and pry with screwdriver trick didnt work and i didnt wanna hurt end of crank.

oh and one other thing. The fuel tank was clean when i got it, and the hose in good shape, it had some semi stale gas in it but no crud, emptied that out and mixed fresh 6 gal so all my gas is fresh. But i noticed when we stop to fish for a little bit i have to re-pump up my primer bulb, would the hose losing prime cause it to idle rough, i would think once primed and started that the fuel pump should draw enough after it's running, but just thought i would give you guys every piece of info i got going on.

 

[870 Expressmag]

Re: 1969 Evinrude Fastwin 18HP troubles

i believe im going to need a head, the compression tester seals with an o-ring which is why i got good compression, but the sealing washer on upper plug is bent so i know it's not sealing good, and with oil running down head it's gotta bleed off some compression when plug is installed, i looked up OEM number and its 381151, anyone know where i can find one, prefer used dont wanna shell out 160-175 for a new one.

 

[kfa4303]

Re: 1969 Evinrude Fastwin 18HP troubles

Hello again 870. Yeah, getting a new/old head may be easier than trying to fix the old one. You should be able to find them on ebay, marineengine.com, by placing a WTB add on aomci.org, or just asking around here in the forums. Also, do a search here for how to resurface a head to insure a nice tight fit. All you really need is piece of glass, some sandpaper and patience. You should be able to get the head gasket right here at iboats too. As far as the primer bulb goes, it should get and stay firm prior to starting the motor, then go slack once the motor is up and running. If it will not get firm, that usually means there's a problem with the fuel pump. If the motor picks up when you manually squeeze the bulb while underway, then that is another sign of a bad pump. However, I wouldn't be too concerned if all you have to do is give it a few squeezes between start ups. If all else fails, you can try getting a new squeeze pump for about $20 from Wally-world. I've also heard that it's best to place the bulb fairly close to the motor and in a vertical orientation to help keep the internal valves from sticking. Of course, mine is several feet from the motor and lays on its side, but seems to work just fine Either way, I would focus on and fix one issue at a time. Get the head squared away, then move on to the primer bulb and you'll have her running in no time.

 

[870 Expressmag]

Re: 1969 Evinrude Fastwin 18HP troubles

well i ordered the points and condensors today, and got some J6C plugs. Still looking for the head.

as far as the primer bulb, maybe i am misunderstanding how this is supposed to work. When i pump up the bulb it gets hard after about 3-4 pumps. I have tried pumping when i felt i was loosing power and it doesn't help so i am guessing my pump is ok. However after you pump it initially and start motor and run around the lake and stop to fish, are you supposed to have to repump it or is it still supposed to be hard? i would think if the fuel pump draws up the hose it will take pressure out of the primer bulb so it would be softer than intially. Whats the "correct" procedure to operate this?

 

[nwcove]

Re: 1969 Evinrude Fastwin 18HP troubles

you can also google doug penn, he is a great guy and sells top notch used parts.
as far as the primer bulb goes, as mentioned, it wont stay hard when running, but you should not have to pump it up after every shutdown....unless its for an extended period. could be a bad check valve in the primer bulb, allowing the fuel to slowly drain from the line tho.

 

[870 Expressmag]

Re: 1969 Evinrude Fastwin 18HP troubles

ok so i may have a small leakage problem with the check valve in primer bulb but it doesn;t sound like this would be causing my issues.
i will address that later on.
I took the flywheel off tonight and looked for the infamous coil cracks, coils look to be pretty new and in great shape. Points also look fairly new but have white pitting, not acrossed full face of point surface, just where they make contact with each other, i'd say a third of the surface size. Definately seen engines run with a lot worse points. Either way i have new points and condensors coming so i suppose i should just put em in. is it difficult to take this whole assembly off so i can check the upper crank seal to make sure it's not seeping oil and possibly have an air leak?

 

[AlTn]

Re: 1969 Evinrude Fastwin 18HP troubles

nope..unplug the grounding wires at the connections going to the stop switch...remove the 4 phillips head screws closest to the crankshaft end < 2 go through the coils as well as the plate >...then, remove the sparkplug leads from the clamps or springs holding them in place...now just lift the armature plate, grounding wires, and leads up and off.....the Sticky Top Secret Files has a section titled Universal Magneto Troubleshooting which illustrates all of this

 

[kfa4303]

Re: 1969 Evinrude Fastwin 18HP troubles

Hello again 870. Glad you got the flywheel off. Sounds like the coils are ok, so changing the points & condensers should help a lot. You're correct about the primer bulb. It should get firm when you pump squeeze it prior to start up, then go soft as the motor is running. You may/may not have to pump it again throughout the day again to restart the motor. I usually don't have to, but then again sometimes I do. A good carb cleaning and rebuild, along with changing any old or damaged fuel lines will ensure that your fuel system is in the best shape possible. You should be able to easily remove the magneto plate there are only 4 screws that hold it in place and 2 pass through the coils. Here's a great link that can walk you through a magneto rebuild. Make sure the s'plug wires are in good shape too. You may need to rim 1/2" of the coil end to expose some fresh copper. Be sure they're twisted on to the coils posts as well. Holler if you stuck.

http://www.outboard-boat-motor-repa...on 3 HP 1952-1967 Ignition System Tune-up.htm

 

[870 Expressmag]

Re: 1969 Evinrude Fastwin 18HP troubles

well i took the magneto plate off, coils look good, gonna replace points and condensors anyway even though they don't look to bad. Plug wires look excellent, the more i get into this it looks like it had a ignition rebuild not to long ago. But as long as I am in there the points and condensors will get changed. I inspected the upper seal, it appears to be ok and doesnt look like it's leaking or sucking air. But there is some grease and oily substances around the outside of the tall flange that surrounds the seal and around the armature plates. Is this area supposed to be greased since it moves back and forth during throttle up and down for spark advance? where should there be grease and not be? I think this is the source of my grease from my first post that is slung around the inside of the cowl. Like i said i think this ignition was serviced not long ago and maybe the excess grease is slinging? so all in all so far i still believe my culprit is in the head and the upper plug not sealing, still trying to locate a head, contacted doug penn, he unfortunately did not have one, he gave me the name of some guy in CT, he responded once but havnt heard back from him yet. So i think the head may be part of the problem, and once i do that and the points/cond, if those arent it i guess it's back into the carb, that would be about all thats left that could cause my issues right? i was thinking of popping the linkage off and seeing if i could get the low speed jet out of carb with carb still mounted to motor and give it a quick cleaning again in case it got a chunk of something that freed up somewhere and got caught, am i on the right track?

 

[kfa4303]

Re: 1969 Evinrude Fastwin 18HP troubles

Place a WTB add on aomci.org and/or ebay.com. Do you have a pic of the grease?

 

[870 Expressmag]

Re: 1969 Evinrude Fastwin 18HP troubles

looked on ebay and cant find the right part#, i will try aomci. the camera on my phone broke so i will find my regular camera and snap a few pictures of what i'm talking about

 

[870 Expressmag]

Re: 1969 Evinrude Fastwin 18HP troubles

these pictures show the grease slung inside the cowl, the grease on the two plates, and the grease and oil around crankshaft, the seal looks oily in picture but it didnt appear to be upon inspection.

 

[AlTn]

Re: 1969 Evinrude Fastwin 18HP troubles

look at the diagrams for your engine <powerhead > at marineengine.com...hard to tell from pics, but could the leak be coming from the crankcase halves seam? or the upper crankbearing/seal?....you could always clean that area well, run the engine a while,then pull the armature plate back off and inspect

 

[870 Expressmag]

Re: 1969 Evinrude Fastwin 18HP troubles

well it doesn't appear to be coming from the crankcase halves. As far as the seal I am not really sure because there is grease under there too, which i am wondering is some of those components that shift back and forth with spark advance supposed to be greased? if so i wonder if the last person got a little crazy with it since those parts are greasy and the grease is slung on inside of cowl. I will clean it up and run it for a while and recheck, but still wondering what, if anything is SUPPOSED to be greased in this area.