1973 85hp Chrysler.. No spark ????.. Update!!! Fixed!!

[snwwlkr]

I recently bought this and it has 150psi all 3 and was showing strong spark at the plugs. Its set about 5+ yrs. motorola cdi with points. Motor looks pretty decent. not rusted.
Things I did..
-cleaned and rebuilt the carbs
-new fuel pump kit
-new water pump kit
-new fuel lines and fuel filter in between pump and carbs.
-checked plugs to be the proper plugs

So I mixed up some gas, hooked up the water muffs and commenced to test her out. Looked to be getting fuel. Cranked but was not firing. Moved the shifter around and she fired and ran for about 10 seconds, sounded pretty good then just quit.

-Now I have NO spark ...tested from plugs to block or wires to plug
-circuit breaker check good(closed)
-block high temp sensor checks good(open)
-I've tested the ignition switch via the seloc manual and all is well
-12 volts on red strip at motor when key off
-12 volts at red and blue with key on.
-checked and set the points.
Dist cap center button was broke so I robbed a good cap from my 70hp donor motor.
-also swapped unknown condition coil and cdi from donor motor. Still no spark.
-PO had bypassed the nutruel safety switch so it cant be that.
-Have looked over the motor high and low for bad connections or bad wires
-tested stator as per seloc and it tested ok
-regulator did not test ok as per seloc but I've got 12v at all 3 of the terminals on top -of the regulator, not sure what that means(does it effect starting of the motor?)
I also have 12v to the distributor via white/black wire from the cdi???

Running out og ideas and REALLY do not wish to start throwing $$$ at this thing unless I'm pretty sure its the problem..

 

[wickware]

Re: 1973 85hp Chrysler.. No spark ????

Re: 1973 85hp Chrysler.. No spark ????

1. Did you double-check the gear selector?s position?
2. Have you checked the point?s gap (.020 etc, dressed or replaced the points)? Jow

 

[snwwlkr]

Re: 1973 85hp Chrysler.. No spark ????

Re: 1973 85hp Chrysler.. No spark ????

To be honest as far as the points they looked super clean, like new so I didnt sand or anything and as far as the gap. I think the book called for .014 .. I didnt have my feeler gauge so I used a slice of a business card and figured that was close enough for starters?? They were about closed before I adjusted them..

Does the gear selector position effect starting in some way like electrically??

 

[wickware]

Re: 1973 85hp Chrysler.. No spark ????

Re: 1973 85hp Chrysler.. No spark ????

You will see I am not directly familiar with your system but will throw some thing out from past experiences.

1. I have two controls that put me in neutral and start. I see you were cranking just no fire.

2. Since you put the card stock between the contacts why not run a continuity test to know no fiber remains prevent contact?

3. Is a condenser in this ignition system? If so, have you tested or changed it?

4. Is info in your manual that shows you what should be hot (12v) with the switch on? I replaced my switch once due to no 12v output at a terminal and could hot wire and start. The situation occurred again in about 2 years vs 10. This led me to believe sitting under a tarp in the weather could be affecting contacts in the switch. Using TV tuner spray in the switch proved the contacts needed cleaning as it has started through the switch since.

5. My last suggestion will be to PM Frank that makes many replays (with your initial post). I feel he is the most knowledgeable person on Chryslers on the board and enjoys sharing his experience. jow

 

[snwwlkr]

Re: 1973 85hp Chrysler.. No spark ????

Re: 1973 85hp Chrysler.. No spark ????

Thanks wickware for your time..

As far as the gear selector thing and any elec switchs involved with that I'm pretty sure its not that but I'm always open to ideas..

The card was a pretty clean cut strip and I did check continuity while I was doing it but should probably double check that...

The book says there is no test for a condenser?? Can that make you not get spark if it is bad??.. My understanding was that a condenser just cuts down on interference for other elec equip in the system but I'm no real mechanic to be honest...

I did do all of the test per the manual on the ign switch and it checked out 100%. All wires in the box looked good and I think I'm getting the correct voltage to the motor wiring strip...

My gut feeling is it something really simple I'm just having trouble nailing it down. Also really would like to know if my regulator could be the problem (see first post).

Regardless its a education and if I get this motor going I've got a 1971 70hp that will be next and I'm sure MUCH easier to diagnose with a running donor engine to try parts off of...

 

[NYBo]

Re: 1973 85hp Chrysler.. No spark ????

Re: 1973 85hp Chrysler.. No spark ????

The neutral safety switch prevents the starter from engaging.

Is the kill switch lanyard hooked up?

 

[snwwlkr]

Re: 1973 85hp Chrysler.. No spark ????

Re: 1973 85hp Chrysler.. No spark ????

The neutral safety switch was rigged/bypassed by the PO. So its not a possibility.

This system has no kill switch or lanyard set up.. Old school ya know

 

[wickware]

Re: 1973 85hp Chrysler.. No spark ????

Re: 1973 85hp Chrysler.. No spark ????

The voltage regulator should just affect you charging system vs fire. BUT! In 40 + years I have not had a bad condenser to cause no fire but routinely changed them with new points. I have seen the affects of bad or wrong condensers causing points to burn prematurely. I have read other?s post that felt their condensers were the cause on no fire. For you to start and stopping I am questioning electrical wiring, condenser or more CDI. I remember on a 1974 Audi with a bad CD Box we could eliminate the expensive bad CD box and add a High Voltage coil to get a hot spark vs fouled plugs.

I?ll still suggest you PM Frank with the original Post and some of the other specific questions. He has seen most of this and worked with it. I think the early CDI were a challenge. We had one to stop cold on us instantly in the late 1970s, our first year fishing from a boat vs any repairing. A shop replaced all the related electronics because they and electrical wired had damage that was just beginning to show from water damage. Finally, we learned that the boat went down shortly during a storm but was serviced. Do you know the history of the boat? jow

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 1973 85hp Chrysler.. No spark ????

Re: 1973 85hp Chrysler.. No spark ????

The 12 volts on the wire to the distributor is signal voltage. I forget exactly, but either opening or closing the points signals the CD box to fire. This system does not need a condenser inside the distributor but some did come with a noise reducing condenser at the engine terminal board. If it does have an internal condenser, try removing it. A shorted one will act like the points are always closed. Check that the terminal for the white/black wire is not corroded and insulating. Check inside the distributor that the wire from this terminal to the points spring is not broken and is indeed attached.

Failure mode on the CD unit is usually a transistor and you will get multiple sparking at the affected plug You need to pull the top plug and with the ignition on, turn the flywheel by hand until just around TDC while you look at the plug. rock the flywheel a couple of degrees. It should only fire once each time it (closes or opens the points) with a snap. If it crackles and buzzes like a bee, the CD unit is bad. If it does not fire at all, then search further but the CD could also be bad.

And you are both wrong: 2 cylinder points are set to .020, 3 cylinder to .018, and four cylinder to .014

be certain that you did not apply too much lubricant to the points rubbing block or felt wick--This will foul the points quickly.

Also, double check that the rotor is pointing to the correct distributor terminals: Three are used and three are grounded. You must align the top pulley with the flywheel. In line with that, double check that the woodruff key is not broken or missing from the top pulley.

The distributor cap is located by a small pin on the distributor body but it is possible to get it on 180 degrees off. Double check that the pin is not broken off and the cap is on correctly.

 

[snwwlkr]

Re: 1973 85hp Chrysler.. No spark ????

Re: 1973 85hp Chrysler.. No spark ????

UPDATE!!! Its running...Thanks for the help and ideas. Wickware you nailed it.. Basically my gut was that it was something simple.. and it was. I bought a proper feeler gauge to set the points and while I was in there I was double checking continuity from the black/white wire to the points and to ground when the points were closed. Right away I found I was getting no circuit to ground with the points closed. Even though the points looked new, felt clean with the feeler gauge.... I slipped a fine piece of sand paper in between the points and did a little lite sanding on both sides... She started!!!!!!! Yes it was that simple.. Dirty/fouled points....

 

[wickware]

Re: 1973 85hp Chrysler.. No spark ????

Re: 1973 85hp Chrysler.. No spark ????

Congrats snwwlkr! I have learned that ?Patience, Persistence And Testing Pays Off?. New and looks can be deceiving but testing can verify needed elements.

The info on the CD units took me back to the 70s when we started adding the small units to lawn mowers to eliminate points and condensers. Eliminating the dirty points due to a bad condensers or crankcase blow-by solved the problems (close to the cost of new points and condensers). A Big Thanks For The Feed Back. Good Luck With Your Projects! jow

 

[snwwlkr]

Re: 1973 85hp Chrysler.. No spark ????.. Update!!! Fixed!!

.. The education continues 4ur sure!!!... To be honest I've been working pretty hard in this summer heat here in Tn but all the while milling on this ???. First thing I did after "Deep" thought was this..............From experience its usually something simple/basic....

That said... I'm not afraid to admit I overlooked something or eat a little crow!!! besides, anything is good with a little Tabasco .. This is a great site and I'm more than happy to share my experience for the better of those that follow behind me........... I'm always leaning.... Its a learning experience....

 

[wickware]

Re: 1973 85hp Chrysler.. No spark ????.. Update!!! Fixed!!

Please let us know if it?s pumping water good and has good power when you get on the water. What boat will you be pushing and expectations??? jow