1974 Starcraft Chieftain Mark IV - Hmm....

[nomrwrk]

I am in need of Starmada's expert guidance. I am currently looking at buying a 21' 1974 Starcraft Chieftain in the Portland Oregon metro area; I live in Oregon City. The seller inherited the Chieftain from his father. It has been primarily used on the Columbia River - Buoy 10 at the mouth of the Columbia River to Bonneville Dam (brackish to fresh water). Here are some pics I took of the boat: http://www.flickr.com/photos/nomrwrk

The hull and rivets appear to be in good shape. The bottom of the boat has some surface corrosion, but i could not find any holes, pin-holes, pitting or anything that would signify a major problem. There is some damage on the starboard rail (fixable?), the port side cuddy window and side panel. The floor has soft spots and will need to be replaced. Under the floor, I was able to get to some of the foam and it didn't feel wet or rotton. The transom felt solid, but I did notice some rot starting, expecially around thru holes that had not been properly sealed. The helm controls and cuddy interior are in better condition than most '74 Chieftains (I believe). The boat was hastily repainted a few years ago (I say hasitly, because there is a fair amount of paint drool)

The Chieftain has been repowered by 1997 Mercruiser 4.3LXH Gen+ and Alpha One outdrive. It has 124 hours on the meter. The engine has been serviced by a techician (waiting for paperwork/proof) that everything was in working order before being winterized in 2009. Since then it has been under cover and out of harms way.

The seller has offered to take me on test ride of the boat if we come to terms (negotiated price and a hand-shake).

What is your opinion about the condition of the Chieftain? What concerns, if any, would you have if you were to purchase the boat? And what repairs do you think may be necessary (this will be my first Starcraft restoration, but not my first tin boat)?

The seller is offering the Chieftain at $3,400, which I think is high. The seller is willing to negotiate, but down to a win/win price? He wants the boat to live a good, long, healthy life, that's a big plus.

Thank you in advance for your guidance and feedback!!

 

[dozerII]

Re: 1974 Starcraft Chieftain Mark IV - Hmm....

Welcome nomrwrk, that is a great looking boat. Having the GM V6 and updated drive is a real plus. The floor and transom are a fairly big job but very doable for a handy guy. There is ton of help on this site for this kind of project. So long as the engine and out drive check out OK, and the hull is solid you should be good. These boats hold a lot more value in the west than they do in the east or even the mid west.
Glen

 

[nomrwrk]

Re: 1974 Starcraft Chieftain Mark IV - Hmm....

Thanks Glen. I really appreciate the warm welcome. I thought it was a great looking boat AND I was really surprised to find the GM V6. I thought for sure I would find a deal breaker when inspecting the boat, but I didn't. Hence my request for help. Any other comments, thoughts or suggestions from the group?

I have restored one other boat, a 1995 Alumacraft Lunker V16, but that was an easier project than this one will be. You can see the pics at http://www.flickr.com/photos/nomrwrk/sets/72157626879285120/show/. It best viewed as a slide show.

I guess I will really know more about the condition of the boat when I see the papwork on the GM V6 and outdrive. Hopefully, if all comes together, I can take the Chief for a test run and see how she performs. The inspection afterwards should shed more light on any issues that may exist.

 

[Jayb123]

Re: 1974 Starcraft Chieftain Mark IV - Hmm....

Yes, welcome nomrwrk..... thats a nice chieftan to start out with. I like the orange (was thinking of that color myself for a resto) I am kind of a cheapo, so yes $3400 does sound a little high.... unless she purrs like a kitten and had 0 things wrong with her (keep in mind I am one of the lesser experienced in the starmada fleet) Anyway, what ever you decide to do...enjoy and good luck.

 

[JD in Milwaukee]

Re: 1974 Starcraft Chieftain Mark IV - Hmm....

The repower had to be quite pricey, I'm guessing way more than the $3,400 he's asking. It's a real plus for this boat. The boat is 37 years old. I thought the hull looked to be in great shape. The aluminum will always be there and wood can be replaced. Replacing the floor is a pain in the rear but it's more time consuming than difficult. The same for the transom. Paint can be sanded and buffed. It sounds like you like the boat but you're looking for us to steer you away. I look at it this way. What would it cost you to purchase a new version? You can't factor your time into the price, that never works. Sort of a labor of love thing. What are you hoping to get it for? 2,500-3,000?

 

[elkhunter338]

Re: 1974 Starcraft Chieftain Mark IV - Hmm....

I bought a 1986 Cheif about 6 years ago for over $4k, I probably paid too much, but alum boats go for alot of $ on the west coast. What If found after I bought it cost me alot more $. Rotten floor under the right fuel tank, soft transmon, the engine was not 1986, it ended up being a 71 vintage. It now has a new 140hp engine and sei outdrive. All being said I like the boat for my use (ocean fishing out of newport) but I have had many repairs. Broken timing gear, outdrive issues, and other. That boat you are looking at appears to be worth 3-4k if it runs good. Some thing is only worth what someone is willing to pay. You won't find a 21' alum boat much cheaper on the west coast if any cheaper. Single axle trailer? Mine weights 4,000 lbs on the axles of the trailer loaded with fishing gear, kicker motor and such.
My tandem axle trailer had 2-2,000 axles and I just installed new 3,500lb axles.
You can salvage the canvas with rubber roof coating as long as you do not plan on removing the canvas. Mine was leaking 2 years ago bad, no rips I coated with rubber roof coating the canvas soaked up the coating and she is sealed water tight, looks alittle funny with a white canvas top and brown side curtains, its a fishing boat.
I basically rebuild the whole inside and pretty much have it the way I want it. My wife and I have slept in ours many times, and have hauled in some nice fish. It does ok in rough water but bobs around like a cork because it is light. Rough seas you cannot go as fast as a heavy fiber boat. with the cabin it will handle rough seas if you go slow. I have had mine in 6-8+ swells. One day the weather picked up quick and we had to make port at 1-2 mph into the waves, water was coming over the bow every wave. I typically make 5-25 trips a year out in the ocean for the past 6 years, so I have run the boat a fair amount.
I have been as far as 20+ miles from port, I prefer to stay within 5-10.
I wish mine was the 24' version of the chief. I like the chief better than the islander model. Let me know if you have anyother ?'s, not many of us on here have the chiefs.
In Oregon I would say $3,400 is a fair price if you like the boat and she runs good.
I have probably close to $10k in mine over the past years 4k purchase, 3k for engine, 1.7k outdrive, trailer axles, all new wood, and other.

 

[Huron Angler]

Re: 1974 Starcraft Chieftain Mark IV - Hmm....

If you can take it out for a test drive and confirm everything is in working order that is a fair price for the west coast.

Not that you shouldn't try to talk him down, but as mentioned, that 4.3 is a good motor as long as it's been maintained well.

If no water trial then surely he will take a lower offer, being as-is. Hopefully you can walk away with it for 3k or less.

I'd be concerned that the boat is behind on maint and will require cash to get it caught up. If it's been maintained by a marina that would be a plus, but the guy probably did it all himself if he restored the boat.

I don't see any major dents or hull damage. Everything else can be fixed, so it looks like a good one to me.

Good luck to ya!

 

[nomrwrk]

Re: 1974 Starcraft Chieftain Mark IV - Hmm....

Thanks guys for your guidance. I am not looking to be steered away. Just trying to be cautious. I have been known to get excited and make a poor decision - at least that's what my wife tells me :facepalm:. I agree that if the hull is reasonably sound and the powerplant is in good working order, I have the basics to put in some time and sweat to get the Chief fishing again.

As for price, I figured $2,700 - $3,100 would be order for the PNW - lots of boats not selling due to high unemployment and fuel costs. I am also budgeting $2k for materials (wood, paint, fasteners, wiring, etc.); $2K for a used kicker and electronics (fishfinder, GPS/plotte, VHF); and another $1K for unforseen expenses. When all said and done, I would have $7,700 - $8,100 into the Chief. This is assuming the engine doesn't need anything other than standard maintenance. The trailer will also need some TLC, but from what I can tell this will be mostly cosmetic, unless the surge breaks are not working or there are weak spots/cracks that I did not see on my first inspection. Am I in the ballpark or is this wishful thinking?

Elkhunter - thanks for the additional information about your experience and your Chief's performance. I am used to being on Big Blue in a 22' 1992 Trophy. We have been in 9' swells with 3' wind waves. Not much fun, but we plowed through it. Based on what you said, I can expect more bobbing than plowing. Does it roll alot? I would also prefer a 24' Chief, but they are scarce. The 22' is nice, but the deck is bit cramped for fishing. Has that been your experience?

 

[Huron Angler]

Re: 1974 Starcraft Chieftain Mark IV - Hmm....

The 22' Islander has much more room in the stern for fishing, since the cabin is smaller.

I was looking at a 22' Chief vs a 22' Islander, and for fishing the Islander is a better layout in my opinion with more real estate near the downriggers.

You can customize the boat to your needs though, so anything is possible.

 

[jasoutside]

Re: 1974 Starcraft Chieftain Mark IV - Hmm....

Welcome nom!

Tell ya what, Starcraft Chieftain repowered with a Mercruiser 4.3, awesome! So long as the hull is solid and the Merc checks out I definitely think it's worth it.

You may need to rebuild all the rest though. A pretty big task for a Chief as you totally have a bathroom/dining room/kitchen stuffed in there. That rig looks completely usable as is if you wanted to wait a few years on a project like that.

A solid hull and a good running, late model Merc V6 is super in my eyes. I think if you can get him to the $3K range (and the Merc checks out) you should jump on it.

Have fun!!!

 

[nomrwrk]

Re: 1974 Starcraft Chieftain Mark IV - Hmm....

Its the classic dilemma, 22' Chief vs. 22' Islander. The Islander does appear to have a better layout for fishing. At the same time, when I go to the coast (3 hour drive from my house), I plan to eat and sleep on the boat. Fortunately, the Columbia is only 40 minutes away. You're right, customization can make a difference. I envision using the Chief for a season, assuming as Jas said, it is usuable from the get go. If not, then fix anything that is a safety issue, then use it for a season. Based on how I use the boat, I can then fix/customize/upgrade for my purposes. There is an Islander for sale in my area. I called the seller and hopefully I can check it out today.

 

[jasoutside]

Re: 1974 Starcraft Chieftain Mark IV - Hmm....

Yah, Chief vs. Islander. More cabin space vs. more deck space. More room to hang vs. more room to fish.

I know when I was looking I would have jumped at either one. I am glad that I ended up with the Islander though as the extra deck space is definitely more important to me. We'll camp and sleep in the boat but that will be rare. Most any camp out we'll be on we'll likely be tenting it on shore. My cabin will mostly be used for cat naps and storage for the most part. My kiddos will just like to play in there for a few more years too.

Kinda sorta weigh the pros and cons and run with it eh!

Have fun!

 

[jasoutside]

Re: 1974 Starcraft Chieftain Mark IV - Hmm....

By the way...

You did an excellent job on that Alumacraft!

 

[nomrwrk]

Re: 1974 Starcraft Chieftain Mark IV - Hmm....

Thanks Jas! I hoping to do the same with my first Starcraft! It is a great feeling to extend the life of a wonderful boat. I can look back and say, "I did that!"

 

[elkhunter338]

Re: 1974 Starcraft Chieftain Mark IV - Hmm....

nomrwrk,
The light boat does roll around some, the best way to describe it is it bobs. Light boat means less fuel expense and trailering weight. The chief is good to sleep in. I took the sink, and toilet out of mine. More storage where the toiled was in the bow, where the sink is I built a removeable shelf for my fish box (big ice chest), the other side of the cabin I build a shelf. The fish box is plumbed with a drain and I have pump that I can put fresh sea water into the fish box to wash the blood off the fish. Cheif works great for sleeping, wife and I used to sleep in it all time until last year I bought a camper for the pickup. One thing I did that I love was the door swings in so you can have the cabin door open while fishing and you can also use the passenger seat adjacent to the driver. Fish box is across from the door that way you have all seating in the cabin. This mod took me a few years to figure out. I used to have fish box on a cabin seat.
As far as a kick motor goes. You must get a long shaft(probably already know that since you fish the salt). I have a 2001 15hp johnson 2 stroke with a 4 blade prop I get 5 mph in the ocean.
A 25hp 2 stroke I got 7 mph.
I have only been in a 17' alum boat as a kid, and now my cheif on the ocean so I cannot compare a fiberglass 20-22' boat to the starcraft. Been on a few charter boats.
Cost wise I think you are covering your bases with what you are budgeting.
I find fishing wise you can fish 4 people ok, not alot of extra room, I have no seats next to the motor so you can stand a person on each side of the motor in the back and have 2 more people forward of the back to and fish for bass or bottom fish ok. Trolling you get buy unless you get double or triple salmon on then the boat gets small in the back. The big cabin is nice at night and to store your fishing gear in.
Your 4.3 is going to take up some more width but should be alittle shorter than my 4.
One issue I had with the lack of fishing room was when we caught a fish that would not fit in the fish box, so we had to put it on a wet sheet on the floor in the cabin what a mess. It was worth it for a 130lb halibut.
You will want to keep as much heavy stuff as possible in the bow of the boat to help keep the nose of the boat down when you are going the typical 10-15 mph ocean speeds. Like I said you will loose 5 mph over a fiberglass boat just due to the light weight and shallower v, otherwise you just beat the boat up. I get passed all the time by fiberboats going 5+ mph faster than me. I also installed 2 bilge pumps which was nice because one weekend I trouble with one of them. Keep us posted if you get the boat, hey if you are in newport this summer maybe we will cross paths. Not many starcraft guys on the West coast.

 

[ezmobee]

Re: 1974 Starcraft Chieftain Mark IV - Hmm....

You did an amazing job on the Alumacraft. Nice work! I don't know about that Chieftain. The hull damage and the broken plexi front cabin window are gonna be a pain to deal with. The powerplant is about all it has going for it (although that is a huge plus if it checks out).

If you're going to regularly overnight on it, I would definitely want a Chieftain over an Islander.

 

[nomrwrk]

Re: 1974 Starcraft Chieftain Mark IV - Hmm....

elkhunter - excellent information. I really appreciate you sharing your personal experiences and insight. I now have a good idea of what to expect from the Chieftain when fishing out of Newport. And that halibut...SWEET. I was fortunate to be able to hit the water when the All-Depth Halibut Fishing season opened in May. You may have seen me on news http://kohd.com/news/local/212278...hopefully not TMI.

ezmobee - Thanks for the compliment! I am with you about the Chieftain. I sent the pics to a local boat builder and asked him about the damage. He said that it is probably fixable, but it may not be worth the time, headaches and money. I would most likely have to replace the rub rail, which would require cutting and welding. That level of work is a bit out of my league and the cost to have it done is bit more than I want to spend. Also, there is a possiblity that, that section of the hull could have metal fatigue or stress cracks due to the damage. Hard to tell due to the newer paint job. Can you hear warning bells?!

So, I have decided to pass on this Chieftain. Back to the search for Chieftain or Islander that I can restore and make it my own.

I'll keep the Starmada updated on my search!