1978 85 hp merc not 'peeing' with muffs on. Waterpump problem?

andrewbabich

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Aug 31, 2009
Messages
85
1978 85 hp merc not 'peeing' with muffs on. Waterpump problem?

I'm trying to wake this old neglected boat up. Just spent 5 hours freeing the steering. Yay!

Now I have spark. I got it to run for like 5 seconds with the choke on twice and it dies.

I am not getting any pee stream from the motor hole above the muffs. Does that mean I have to get into the water pump?

I have yet to get the boat running yet so I 'm not trying to get too crazy, but now I know I'm close as I have steering and I have gotten it to turn over.

I'm trying to get the tank out but its hard to get to. I'm going to get fresh gas to it soon. I know the old stuff is bad news even if it was stabiled.

Heres a picture. All of the water comes out of the muff area and not the drain hole above.P1010851.jpg
 

ThumbPkr

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 17, 2007
Messages
371
Re: 1978 85 hp merc not 'peeing' with muffs on. Waterpump problem?

The engine needs to be running to pump the water through it for the pee hole to work.Ron G
 

mr 88

Commander
Joined
Nov 3, 2010
Messages
2,219
Re: 1978 85 hp merc not 'peeing' with muffs on. Waterpump problem?

The odds are the impeller is dry rotted or so brittle that it will fail while you have a boat load of friends on a hot day.At that point you need a tow and probably a new motor as you were not paying attention and fried the head.Many times the tell tale pee hole is clogged with small crap and can be blown out with some air or take a long zip strip and poke it around in the cavity.The majority of water is discharged through the exhaust and prop.The hole is so you can visibly see it is pumping.
As noted the engine has to be running for it to come out either end.Sometimes even revved up a bit,do not go overboard on the RPM's as they do not like that high RPM free spinning and may grenade.
 

Mi duckdown

Commander
Joined
Apr 14, 2007
Messages
2,575
Re: 1978 85 hp merc not 'peeing' with muffs on. Waterpump problem?

change impellar. It needs it.
Use a known GOOD six gallon tank mixed mixed 50:1 for starts.
 

andrewbabich

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Aug 31, 2009
Messages
85
Re: 1978 85 hp merc not 'peeing' with muffs on. Waterpump problem?

So I got the boat running now, the steering works and I'm ready to get this thing in the water, but it does not pee with the muffs on. Is it possible this motor does not have pee holes? It does drizzle out of two exhast ports.

Its a 1978 85 hp merc.
 

andrewbabich

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Aug 31, 2009
Messages
85
Re: 1978 85 hp merc not 'peeing' with muffs on. Waterpump problem?

Yea I'm pretty sure it is supposed to have pee holes. I want to open it up and look inside, but i can't get the prop off. Can I get to water pump with the prop on still?
 

FLATHEAD MAC

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
May 11, 2009
Messages
116
Re: 1978 85 hp merc not 'peeing' with muffs on. Waterpump problem?

:cool:THE PROP DOSENT HAVE TO COME OFF FOR WATER PUMP REPLACEMENT , BUT THE LU (LOWER UNIT) WILL. NOT A HARD JOB. just remember when putting back together that you controler shift handle and LU rae in same gear f/f n/n or r/r. pee hole should be on right side of engine when facing the rear (looking at prop), small hole just on the underside below cowlingView attachment 112965
 

Attachments

  • 034.jpg
    034.jpg
    162.5 KB · Views: 0
  • 034.jpg
    034.jpg
    163.1 KB · Views: 0

Mi duckdown

Commander
Joined
Apr 14, 2007
Messages
2,575
Re: 1978 85 hp merc not 'peeing' with muffs on. Waterpump problem?

Andrew take the cowl off.
You should see the hose that goes to the telltale.
You don't have to take off the prop, to change the impellar.
BUT it would a Good idea to remove it after to make sure it is not stuck to the prop shaft. and grease it.
 

Gomer50

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Sep 5, 2009
Messages
507
Re: 1978 85 hp merc not 'peeing' with muffs on. Waterpump problem?

Do yourself a favor and rebuild the water pump or you will have a lawn ornament.It will be a wonderful experience taking the lower unit off and reinstalling but well worth the 25 bucks. Worry about taking the prop off later,might need some serious convincing ( but thats what grease is for in the future).Good Luck and Happy Boating:)
 

starkyb

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Apr 21, 2007
Messages
217
Re: 1978 85 hp merc not 'peeing' with muffs on. Waterpump problem?

I can never get my 75 horse Mariner to pee with the muffs on but on the water the stream is very strong. Back your boat down the ramp but dont detach from the trailer. Fire the motor up and see what you get. If it doesnt work than just pull it back out of the water and keep working on it
 

FLATHEAD MAC

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
May 11, 2009
Messages
116
Re: 1978 85 hp merc not 'peeing' with muffs on. Waterpump problem?

:cool: IF YOU ARE A WAYS AWAY FROM BOAT RAMP, YOU CAN TAKE A LARGE 50 GAL DRUM AND CUT IT JUST UNDER HALF WAY( DEEP ENOUGH TO FILL WITH WATER TOWELL ABOVE WATER JACKETS) FILL WITH WATER , LOWER MOTOR AND START HER UP. BUT DONT RUN TOO LONG CAUSE PEEING WILL LOWER WARTER LEVEL QUICKLY UNLESS YOU CAN KEEP PEE WATER IN THE DRUM. THATS HOW I CHECKED MY BUDDY'S MOTOR CONSIDERING 30 MINUTE DRive to any boat ramp. good thing doing at home cause she had no pee whats so ever.saved gas and time on that
 

andrewbabich

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Aug 31, 2009
Messages
85
Re: 1978 85 hp merc not 'peeing' with muffs on. Waterpump problem?

Thanks for all the great info guys.

So I found the 'pee' hole for this neglected 1978 motor was called the telltale and its up on the cowl.

Mine was clogged with some crud and small screwdriver fixed the problem.

It started shooting water out of the tell tale hole. Sooo cool. Normally it's just a drip or a bit at idle but with the motor racing more with the choke on I got a good stream. So now my curiosity was burning, the steering was fixed, the holes patched and the motor was starting and singing whenever I put the keys to her. I was starting to fall for this old classic. We really bonded over those last four days.

Everytime I showed her some love she made leaps and bounds towards becoming a working functional boat. I knew what she could be. I saw past the raggy carpet, the faded paint and the torn and lumpy seats. No what I saw was a proud and powerful beauty ready for days on the water soaking up the sun and touching the sky on a wakeboard or reeling in the big strippers and blues.

I could not wait another minute!!!! I had to know what she'd do for me on out on the open water. So we took her out on the maiden voyage Saturday night at 6PM before the sun went down... Ah man, we felt the adventure and we felt alive. Just enough day left to put her to the test. We didn't know what to expect, but we knew she'd probably surprise us with something.

The motor stalled when it was shifted into first or reverse unless you shifted fast. I know that's an idle adjustment. We also learned we didn't have reverse because the motor would try to jump outta the water whenever we hit it in reverse... Apparently we have some work to do on that locking mechinism. No fear. Carry on. Spin the boat get her pointed up river!! Bear Grills doesn't use reverse. Throttle down she roars to life. Right up on plane. Ahhh the music of that two stroke at WOT! Beautiful. And she was moving good too. Especially with four people and medium dog on board. The tell tale was nice and strong on the water as well.

Left a nice wake too. Couldn't wait to see a wakeboard behind her. I was pretty much in love with this motor. She was old, but she was beautiful. Like a cougar that knew her way around the gym, she had swagger. I saw marriage in our near future. It started awesome every time I turned that key. Pretty reliable. Pretty awesome, and definitly not afraid to be different then all the other girls. Ahh the seventies must of been a heck of good time...

Then we ran the boat into some 1 foot of water with new england mud down by the prop area of the river. (low tide is very sneaky, that red buoy was not where I was expecting it and the broken depth finder had yet to make into the diagnostics area of my back yard.) The motor was not very happy with us anymore. I really let her down. She was really cranky now. For the first time since we brought her back to life she did not want to start. I probably flooded it or got sediment up into the engine. Don't know.

To make it even more exciting there was the blue lights of the marine patrol flashing in the air a couple hundred yards away over by the red buoy by the bridge... Was that patrol boat signalling us? Was he there escorting that giant 30 ft pleasure boat that was crawling along next to him at a slow creep. We didn't know. But we knew he was probably watching us and we also knew he wasn't coming near us as we were currently stuck on this shallow ledge area of the river with a boat that didnt' want to start ...

After repeated failed attempts to start it after running it in such shallow muck (we pushed the boat to deeper water) it finally started after 20 agonizing long minutes of worrying the battery was dying with daylight hours running thin and the marine patrol probably watching us with binoculars..... It did not like to start nearly as much after this little snafu. I know it's a good time for a water pump check now...

The tell tale did start working again though on the ride back to the dock. Then boat got weak and died once, (maybe air in the gas I'm hoping). So I can see the dock now. I'm thinking about swimming it 100 feet and walking her along shore to the dock. We don't care, I'm just relieved we're not going to be talking to the coasties or the marine patrol making new friends.

So then we give it an optimistic key twist and she starts right up. Ahhh what a relief. Swimming was gonna be cold at 6:45 PM.

But she was still pretty mad at me. She was not starting like she was earlier in the day.

It was harder than usual to start with the muffs on when I got it home. Kind of sad.

Even without the motor running I was getting water out of the tell tale at home with the muffs on after the maiden voyage. That was nice.

Gonna try some brand new gas. I was using half new gas half 3 month old gas (trying to get rid of it).

Ahhh the adventures of free boats. Boy it was fun.
 

Mi duckdown

Commander
Joined
Apr 14, 2007
Messages
2,575
Re: 1978 85 hp merc not 'peeing' with muffs on. Waterpump problem?

I would still change that impellar if you haven't done so.
 

mr 88

Commander
Joined
Nov 3, 2010
Messages
2,219
Re: 1978 85 hp merc not 'peeing' with muffs on. Waterpump problem?

Run some premium gas with 2-3 times the recommended dose of Sea Foam at varying speeds.Maybe take a spray bottle and put some Seafoam in it and spray directly into the carbs at a high but not too high idle,they do not like being over reved without a load. Make sure your air vent on the gas tank is open. If she is hard starting try pumping the bulb up,if that does the trick you have a fuel issue,probably crap in the carb. Some of these old gals have a certain way they like to be fired up and you will have to experiment a bit to find out what yours wants.Quick hit of the choke,Idle up 1/2- or 1/3 of the way,a squeeze of the bulb, or just a good cussing out to put some fear into her will do.You do have reverse, as you noted the locking mechanism has to be fixed.If you put her in reverse and she jumps out of the water it's working.Try it a slower speed and she will not pop out.I liked your story!
 

ufm82

Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 29, 2003
Messages
827
Re: 1978 85 hp merc not 'peeing' with muffs on. Waterpump problem?

New gas with old gas just makes for new crappy gas. You need to get rid of that old stuff and put from fresh 87 octane in her. Using higher octane can gas can cause high head temps and since your water pump is obviously in less than pristine condition you don't need that. Fresh gas, Sea Foam mixed in ( may need to do carbs still since it sat) and the water pump. Then you can go out and enjoy it just the same without the fear of grenading the old girl.
 

Mi duckdown

Commander
Joined
Apr 14, 2007
Messages
2,575
Re: 1978 85 hp merc not 'peeing' with muffs on. Waterpump problem?

Seafoam is not the answer for bad crappy carbs.
Clean and rebuild carbs is the way to GO
 

mr 88

Commander
Joined
Nov 3, 2010
Messages
2,219
Re: 1978 85 hp merc not 'peeing' with muffs on. Waterpump problem?

I respectively disagree to a large extent on the gas octane issue.This is a 78 and back then 87 was decent gas not like today's diluted ethanol crap. IF you are going to run that 87 your timing should be retarded a few degrees because of that gas.The higher head temps ain't going to happen with today's premium gas,which is like 87 by 1978 standards.I know the octane is the burn time but as I said today's gas is not yesteryears. I run 4 gallons of high test with one gallon of 112 octane and have left the timing where it belongs and no issues with head temps. Most of the time I am running at 3/4 to WOT, I do not baby my 1968 1100ss.
 

mr 88

Commander
Joined
Nov 3, 2010
Messages
2,219
Re: 1978 85 hp merc not 'peeing' with muffs on. Waterpump problem?

Your correct, but it may be a quick fix and possibly loosen up any gunk or obstructions in the jets.If the Foam does not work then it's rebuild time,but you would be surprised how often the SFoam works.He will have all winter to buy a manual and rebuild them properly along with lync N sync along with checking the timing
Seafoam is not the answer for bad crappy carbs.
Clean and rebuild carbs is the way to GO
 

Gomer50

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Sep 5, 2009
Messages
507
Re: 1978 85 hp merc not 'peeing' with muffs on. Waterpump problem?

Its kinda strange but my 1974 loves to run on mid grade and super gas but doesnt like to run worth a dang on regular.In every tank of gas (6 Gallons) I use about a double shot of sea foam.Dont know if it helps but I havent rebuilt my carbs for some time now.What a write up on your adventure makes having a bad day sound like fun.
 

andrewbabich

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Aug 31, 2009
Messages
85
Re: 1978 85 hp merc not 'peeing' with muffs on. Waterpump problem?

Yesterday after a little bit of initial trouble she started right up and idled fine. Then she'd start up whenever I turned her off and then back on.

I think I just fouled up some plugs or had some crud in the gas lines. I still need to put new gas to her. I'll put some seafoam in too.

Do you think I could copy and paste my story in the forum in a new post and label it "The adventure of a maiden voice on a free boat" ? I want more people to read it because I think its the best thing I'll ever write in my entire life... but I also don't want to break any rules if thats taboo.
 
Top