1983 Force 125HP ... kicks / cuts out momentarily

[thundercraft newbee]

I am newbee to boating, and know very little on engines but I am willing to learn.

Just purchased 1987 thundercraft regency with 1983 Force 125HP (so I am told). How can I confirm age of unit? 1983 seems to be Chrysler rather than Force??

Boat is in great condition and runs well until mid to full throttle when it starts kicking very momentarily (< 1sec). It feels like engine is cutting out very momentarily and then restarting?? . Boat shudders / kicks once and then just carries on ....This was happening every 20-30 seconds but not on a regular interval.

Boat has not been used much (2-3 times each year over last few years). Kept in previous owners garage and told it was fogged each year, and gas run out before storing each time used.

Had some basic checks done

new plugs (BUH) - I was told incorrect ones were in
2 leads needed replacement wire ends
fuel pipe replaced
ensured correct 50:1 oil ratio used (previously 30:1)
compression test done - seems great - 142; 143; 145; 145
bottom end oil changed

Since these changes the kicking / cutting out has happened more frequently ... maybe every 5-10 seconds on mid throttle and every 5 seconds on full throttle.

Why would frequency increase with the small changes done?

Anyone had similar problems or any ideas what it could be?

Where do I start - Carb, Ignition, Fuel issue at high rpm?

Please help the newbee boater... appreciated

Phil

 

[Bry21317]

Re: 1983 Force 125HP ... kicks / cuts out momentarily

In have an 88 Force 125. You should beable to find the Serial number on the Force engine on the left side of the motor, looking towards the motor from behind the prop, it will be a little metal sticker or plate on the motor leg. With this number, if you post it on here, someone will beable to tell you exactly what you have.

Have the carbs been rebuilt or cleaned? I would look at this if you are getting stuttering, but others on here will give you alot better information than myself. Also has the Fuel pump been replaced, they are very cheap, like $15-20 and take minutes to replace. This could also cause it to cut out at times. This is what mine was doing, over 2500 rpms or so, then it would smooth out but still would do it occasionaly. Seemed that the fuel pump fixed it though.

Just some information for you to start with, but if you post your Serial number, these guys can tell you everything about that motor.

Thanks,
Bryan

 

[imported_LakeRunner]

Re: 1983 Force 125HP ... kicks / cuts out momentarily

Hey Bry, I'm still working on my boat. Got the PH replaced but I am having trouble getting the throttle and gear linkage hooked back up besides having major problems with both of my vehicles. I've had a very busy summer. At this pace, I will probably get this boat ready for the water by the time the boating season ends. Thundercarft, those compression numbers look good so like Bry says, replace the fuel pump and fuel filter. A bad or leaky diaphram can cause fuel to run your engine rich one second and lean the next. Also clean the carb and fuel system out with some SeaFoam. I would suggest running it in the fuel tank per the instruction on the bottle.

 

[eurolarva]

Re: 1983 Force 125HP ... kicks / cuts out momentarily

The two leads you mentioned are to the battery or are they spark plug leads? If they are spark plug leads did you use marine ones or automotive ones.

Maybe try having the boat out just before sunset or before sunrise and take the cowling off and see if you can see any arching when it happens. Do this while someone else is driving the boat. Also what color is the stator on your motor. Look under the carb near the air baffle and see if there is a data plate that gives the model number.

 

[Bry21317]

Re: 1983 Force 125HP ... kicks / cuts out momentarily

Lakerunner,
I hear ya. Thats no good, hope you get it in the water soon, before it gets to cold. Hope the cars get better also, that is never any fun.

I had the same problems, so the cars got dumped and 2 new ones were purchased, used that is, but now my new Burban pulls this boat like nothing. Where as the Yukon I had, it was a 99 would be all over the road pulling the boat at 70mph, so it didn't feel safe, but the new Suburban will pull it no problem.

Thanks,
Bryan

 

[hobie20cc]

Re: 1983 Force 125HP ... kicks / cuts out momentarily

Had same problem with my force 150, It was water in the fuel. Had to change my fuel water separater 3 times while running it for awhile in between. It will get worse the more you run it without changing the fuel water separater as it gets more and more plugged, eventually letting some water with fuel through causing the cutting out from water and from not enough fuel getting through. You can check this by taking the fuel water separater off and pouring it into a container and if it has water in it then the water will sink to the bottom... you will definitely see it. Always make sure you have a full tank to prevent condensation and change the fuel water separater regularly. Hope this helps

 

[thundercraft newbee]

Re: 1983 Force 125HP ... kicks / cuts out momentarily

sorry for delay in posting back

updates to questions

1) leads replaced were marine spark plug leads

2) model number of motor - US Marine X1258F5A serial X1760.

what year would it be - and therefore which manual should I buy?

what do all the letters indicate?

3) as far as I know carbs have not been cleaned recently nor has the fuel pump been replaced recently

4) It did not appear to have a water/fuel separator (not that I could see)

5) I have posted a picture of the motor. One mechanic said it was an 1983 due to the layout of the cylinders / spark plugs?

... where about is the startor - so I can check the color?

6) It is impossible for me to test at dawn or dusk as I do not have eay access to water.

7) I have asked marine mechanic to run a diagnostics test ($65) to hopefully identify the problem as I am not very mechanically minded yet! ;-(

will seaform do any harm as I have read on some posts that all the garbage can then block other things?

9) currently I am running the motor until gas is used up at end of each trip - is that a good idea or not?
Also should I refill tank rather than leave it empty before next trip?

Lots of questions ..

Thanks

Thundercraft ....

 

[eurolarva]

Re: 1983 Force 125HP ... kicks / cuts out momentarily

I will answer some of the easier ones and let someone else have the tough ones

Never let gas run out completely unless winterizing and using fogging oil. Two strokes require oil for lubrication. If one cylinder runs out of gas and the other one is still running friction can hurt it as well as when the gas is almost gone it will create a lean condition which is why it revs higher just before it dies.

Keep gas can topped off to reduce condensation. Use stabilizer towards the end of the season so that the gas will get a couple months more life.

Motor is 1985 not 1983

 

[thundercraft newbee]

Re: 1983 Force 125HP ... kicks / cuts out momentarily

I can not get photos to display

what am I doing wrong?

 

[eurolarva]

Re: 1983 Force 125HP ... kicks / cuts out momentarily

you need to find a site that will host the pictures like photobucket.com or myfishingpictures.com and then copy the link from that site here. If you are using the iboats software for picture hosting it does not work.

 

[thundercraft newbee]

Re: 1983 Force 125HP ... kicks / cuts out momentarily

see if this works - photos of engine

http://groups.msn.com/HurrensinCanada/hurrens2006.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=79

http://groups.msn.com/HurrensinCanada/hurrens2006.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=81

 

[roscoe]

Re: 1983 Force 125HP ... kicks / cuts out momentarily

In the original post, you said -
"Boat shudders / kicks once and then just carries on .."

I would not concentrate too heavily on the fuel and ignition.
I have not known them to cause a boat to shudder.

I would check out the lower unit shift rod adjustment.
Sounds to me like the clutchdog in the lower unit is slipping out, then re-engaging.
This will happen at higher rpm as there is more torque applied to the wearing parts.

You may be able to remedy it by adjusting the shift rod.
Or you may need to have the surface "refaced" at a machine shop.


X1258F5A
125 - hp
8 - 20 shaft - no power trim
F - Decals were Force decals
5 - 1985
A - Production run "a" in the model year

 

[thundercraft newbee]

Re: 1985 Force 125HP ... kicks / cuts out momentarily

Re: 1985 Force 125HP ... kicks / cuts out momentarily

Update on the status:

New mechanic has being running diagnostics .. checking motor and found ...

1) although the compression is good 141 - 145 across 4 cylinders that only 2 cylinders have ignition. Cyclinders 1, 2 are good, but 3,4 have no spark.

Not too sure why first person that checked motor out did not identify this
unless of course it only happened recently ...

2) The cause - the CD module for 3,4 is defective and needs replacement

If motor was always running on 2 cyclinders .. what would this feel like as generally motor was running well to a newbee! (25+ mph at WOT) except for momentary jerking / kick

Hence mechanic thinks the CD module is the reason for the kick / cut out at mid to full throttle. Once CD module is replaced diagnostics will continue.

3) recent BUH spark plugs that were supplied, should have been BUHX and hence need replacing again!
:|. Not too happy that first mechanic told me BUH

Questions

1) could this be the cause of the momentary kick / motor cut out?

2) if so would any further damage have been done by only running on 2 cylinders

3) what is the difference between BUH and BUHX spark plugs

4) what is the cost of replacing a CD module ... mechanic says around $360 CDN plus fitting

5) what causes CD module to fail ... and will other CD module likely fail in near future ... what is life expectancy?

6) what impact will running on only 2 cylinders have .... long term damage ... etc ...

7) what happens to fuel going into cylinders that are not igniting ... is there likely problems I should look for?

7) what difference will there be to performance when all 4 cylinders are online ... is it +50% or what ?

any feedback is welcome and appreciated in advance

Thanks

 

[eurolarva]

Re: 1983 Force 125HP ... kicks / cuts out momentarily

Sounds like a pretty good deal. Mercury sells those CD modules for 495 dollars. Part number 300-888787. They are not repairable items and life of the part could be forever or less time. The symptoms of the jerking you are feeling could be the cd module kicking in and then not working. I would swap cd units on the motor and see if the lack of spark follows the unit.

 

[JUSTINTIME]

Re: 1983 Force 125HP ... kicks / cuts out momentarily

if u replace one replace the other
they are known 1 to cause the others problems

 

[thundercraft newbee]

Re: 1983 Force 125HP ... kicks / cuts out momentarily

so I am back with an update .. but not much good news

CD module replacement did not cure the problem .. and then winter came
so stored and now being brought out again and trying to get it repaired

first marina said it is likely trigger or stator (ie electronic issue). Although more recent marina repair said it may be carbs as too much fuel is going in or not being burnt as water test showed major pool of fuel in water.

But if I assume spark is not occuring correctly due to electronic issue, then fuel still going in and not beng used, thus overflows.

what should I do now ...

Looking for handy mechanic in Canada - Toronto / GTA area who is keen to assist to get my motor going again without costing me a packet

Any advice as I do not have 1000s to spend on repairs, but need to decide if to try to repair engine, or try switch it out or sell off both boat and engine

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 1983 Force 125HP ... kicks / cuts out momentarily

I concur with Roscoe. If it sounds like a thump and the boat vibrated when it happens it could very well be the drive dogs in the lower unit. As they wear, the edges become rounded and at low throttle they will hold but at higher throttle settings they will jump. The higher the setting, the more frequent the jump and thump. To minimise wear on the drive dogs, it is procedure to quickly snap the engine into gear. Do NOT ease the handle forward. If it is the dogs, usually the dog clutch and the gear dogs are worn. If you are handy, they can be repaired with a Dremel and a carbide bit by carefully grinding back to the un-worn metal. If not handy, it is cheaper and easier to buy a used lower unit rather than buying gears.

 

[MikDee]

Re: 1983 Force 125HP ... kicks / cuts out momentarily

Newbie to the forum here, but I've been doing my own wrenching, repairing, and modding, all kinds of vehicles for years. IMO you are getting a momentary spark interruption, I would check out each of the ignition coils, and spark plug wires, possibly there may be a small hairline crack somewhere, letting in, and, or, holding, moisture causing a momentary breakdown, loss of spark.