1985 merc 50 has no power

fishingdan

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Here is my scenario. I hope some of you folks can offer some suggestions. The engine is a 1985 mercury 50, 4 cylinder, ser number a102150. I am the original owner. <br /><br />In August 04, the carbs were professionally rebuilt and the switch box was replaced by a reputable local marina. The engine ran fine until this spring (idle was a little rougher than it had been). I thought I had fuel leaking out of the front of one of the carbs and possibly some gunk in the needle valve of the lower carb, but it turns out that the float bowl of the top carb was leaking. After further inspection, it was very loose and the gasket had slipped out. <br /><br />Earlier this week, I loosened the front cowling support and loosened the top carb from the engine. I left the fuel lines connected to the carb. Once I had the carb free from the engine block, I turned enough to access the float bowl. I removed the float bowl and the float bowl gaskets. In the process, the baffle slipped out (at least now I know what it is after looking through the service manual). I repositioned the baffle per the manual, re-seated the float bowl gasket and float bowl screw gaskets and then re-installed the float bowl. I then repositioned the carb over the linkage to the bottom carb and slid it into position. I re-installed the front cowling support, choke assembly and everything seemed to be back the way it was. <br /><br />I then started up the engine. All looked good, the engine started up and there was no more leak. I took the boat out and pulled away from the doc. Once I motored through the marina, I started to give it some gas and had no power. It seemed to run up to 40% power and then the throttle control was at the WOT stops. The engine seemed like it was running smoothly at the higher throttle positions. Today in Neutral I could barely keep it running. It seemed like it was starved for fuel. When I got back in, I took the cowling off to make sure that the throttle actuator was accessing the thing on the top carb correctly and it seems ok. <br /><br />Here are some pics of the engine with the cowling off. The picture title "Engine throttle closed" is a picture looking down at the carbs while the engine control is in neutral. The picture titled "Engine throttle open" is a pic when the throttle is pushed forward to the WOT position. The third picture is an attempt to look into the throats of the carbs and verify that they are opening in sync. They seem to be in the same position throughout the throttle control movement from neutral to WOT. Pics were taken while engine was off. <br /><br /> http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/redbird1988/album?.dir=/fd78 <br /><br />I am now wondering if the engine is running without the top carb operating. I plan to loosen the float bowl screw on the top carb to make sure there is at least fuel in there. <br /><br />Although the engine had the fuel leak, it seemed to run well at WOT before I touched the top carb. <br /><br />What additional trouble shooting steps can I take? <br /><br />Thanks in advance for any help.<br /><br />Dan
 

Laddies

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Re: 1985 merc 50 has no power

There is a little peice of metal that slides into the throttle shaft that locks it to the carb shaft, sounds like it fell out, without the engine running open the throttle and see if the bottom carb is openning. I think that it is not--Bob
 

fishingdan

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Re: 1985 merc 50 has no power

hmmmm....I will definitely check that out. I keep thinking that it must be something like that.<br /><br />Thank you. I'll let you know what I find.
 

fishingdan

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Re: 1985 merc 50 has no power

Unfortunately (in terms of finding a quick resolution), I found that the carbs are opening and closing together throughout the throttle movement. <br /><br />While in there, I check the idle mixture screws. They were way off. They were turned out to almost 4 turns. I turned them back in and then out to 1/4. I adjusted them from there per the Seloc manual. The engine is now idling much much better. <br /><br />Would the idle screws being way off affect the high end operation too? <br /><br />Thanks in advance,<br />Dan
 

Laddies

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Re: 1985 merc 50 has no power

No, but it still sounds like you have lost the high speed in one carb
 

fishingdan

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Re: 1985 merc 50 has no power

This morning, I am going to double check and make sure that I am getting spark in all cylinders. What can I do to make sure the high speed jet is working? Can I visually look in the carb while it is running and see anything?<br /><br />Thanks again for your help.
 

fishingdan

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Re: 1985 merc 50 has no power

Did some further trouble shooting. Here is what I have found...<br /> <br />- Spark on all 4 cylinders is good. I expected that, but I wanted to double check. <br /> <br />- I again removed the front cowling support so that I could look in the carbs while the engine is running. I thought I noticed something the last time I had the cover off, but I wanted to look with a flashlight and verify what I had seen. Once the engine warmed up on the muffs, I manually advanced the throttle (just using the throttle lever on the top of the top carb). I did this for a brief moment to see if fuel would come up from the bowl through the high speed nozzle (I think that is what it is from looking at the manual). I noticed that I see fuel coming up in the bottom carb, but nothing in the top carb. I tried this a few times and the results were always the same. <br /> <br />Does this imply that no fuel is getting through the top carb at higher throttle positions resulting in my loss of top end power? <br /> <br />If yes (i.e. this may be part of the problem), what should I do? I am guessing that this may indicate that this high speed nozzle is clogged. I did observe some changes in the engine when I was adjust the top carb idle mixture over the weekend.<br /> <br />Thanks,<br />Dan
 

AMD Rules

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Re: 1985 merc 50 has no power

Maybe a long shot, but .......<br /><br />When you re-adjusted the upper bowl and left the fuel line attached, do you think perhaps the line was damaged (internally?) such that it wont let fuel into the upper bowl or has restricted flow? No kinks or bends in the line anywhere?
 

fishingdan

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Re: 1985 merc 50 has no power

That is a good point. I will take a look at that too.
 

fishingdan

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Re: 1985 merc 50 has no power

I took the carb off tonight and I will open it up tomorrow to clear any debri. It was rebuilt late last summer. It shouldn't be too bad. <br /><br />While I am in this far, I might as well replace the little fuel lines near the carbs. Do I have to use the nylon zip ties that mercury uses or will small hose clamps work (I already have these)? <br /><br />Thanks.
 

AMD Rules

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Re: 1985 merc 50 has no power

Hose clamps should be fine. I used fuel injector hose clamps, found at the local autoparts store.<br />
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<br /><br />Don't use typical household zip ties as they will be sure to leak. <br /><br />Snapper clamps would work too, if they'll fit: Snapper Clamps
 

Chinewalker

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Re: 1985 merc 50 has no power

A quick check to nail the issue as carb - mix up some fuel & oil into a spray bottle. Spray it into the carb while the motor is running and see whether it picks up a bit. Also wouldn't be a bad idea to mix it up on the rich side as your motor may have been running without lube in the top two cylinders during all these tests...<br /><br />- Scott
 

fishingdan

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Re: 1985 merc 50 has no power

Good suggestion Scott. I will see if I can if I can find a bottle and try that before I remove the carb.<br /><br />Thanks
 

fishingdan

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Re: 1985 merc 50 has no power

Ok, had time to look at the engine today. This is what I found.<br /><br />- I took the top carb off of the engine. <br />- No evidence of any fuel in the carb. The fuel bowl is dry.<br />- While I had the carb off, I pumped the bulb slightly to make sure fuel could get throught the fuel lines. Fuel did exit the blue water pump/fuel line fitting thing.<br />- The fuel pump screen was clean (no debri). <br />- Once the carb was off, I looked into the intake manifold with a flashlight and things look clean and no obvious broken parts were visible. However, I don't know what I am really looking at. <br /><br />I guess this tells me that, at least, there is not a fuel line blockage in the engine side fuel lines that connect to the top carb. <br /><br />What should I look at next?<br /><br />I will take a look at the following while I wait for any suggestions: <br />- check the needle vave to make sure it isn't stuck closed<br />- take a look at the water pump internals<br /><br />Should I have done something to make sure the carb had fuel in it before I started the engine after re-installing the carb the first time (ie. does the integral fuel pump need fuel in the carb to work - like priming well pump)?<br /><br />Thanks
 

fishingdan

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Re: 1985 merc 50 has no power

More info...<br /><br />- Fuel pump diaghram looks good. It was obviously included in the carb rebuild last fall.<br /><br />- Needle valve is not stuck and there is no appearent junk in the carb.
 

fishingdan

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Re: 1985 merc 50 has no power

The bowl is now filling with fuel. I don't know what was wrong. I will re-install the carb and see what happens.
 

fishingdan

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Re: 1985 merc 50 has no power

The engine is working fine again. Thanks for the help.
 
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