1986 Classic 50 45hp Troubleshooting help

ksbass

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Aug 25, 2010
Messages
7
I could use some fresh ideas. I am troubleshooting my 4-cyl Merc. I was out Wed and Thurs enjoying the last nice days of the year and several times the engine stuttered between 90-100% WOT. A quick random mis-fire after reaching ~5000RPM from a hole shot, like 2 or 3 in a row then smooth for a second or two then another quick mis-fire fit, each time I'd pull back to 75% WOT and she'd settle down. Back up to 100% and she ran great from then until next hole shot. This happened 3 or 4 times out of the hole after either being off - cold then warmed up or trolling around 1200 RPM. All spring and summer she has ran great. Over 75 gallons of fuel this season - Canada, Kansas, Missouri, & Arkansas. Ran well. Starts everytime, idles great, accelerates quickly out of the hole and gets on plane just fine. Doesn't feel like a loaded up engine, no bogging down, more like a loose connection, very electrical in my thoughts. Air temp was ~45-50F and water was 54F.

Here's what I've done so far today...
I pulled the plugs and found #3 was carboned up much more than the other 3. See Pic - #1 is on the right. These were new plugs last spring. Sure looks like something is up with #3 cyl. Not just recently either. Does this look electrical or like something is goofy with the lower carb? Too rich on Cyl 3 or not enough heat?

Classic 50 Plugs.jpg

Checked all the connections on the coil packs and switchbox, nothing loose.

Gap tested all four plug wires with the gap tester. Easily shot across the 3/4" gap.

Compression - all at 120 +-2 psi.

Pumped primer bulb until hard.

Some history.
I bought this boat summer 2010 as a father-daughter-son project boat. Previous owner had jump started the engine with a car battery then ran with no battery. Not a good idea. He had a marine shop replace the switchbox and trigger to get her running again. Also a new marine battery. Rectifier was still fried when I got her. Water leaked out of cyl block cover near #1 plug. Carbs were gummed up and leaking, gaskets leaked in multiple locations, lower unit was leaking, wiring was mouse chewed. She ran but smoked a ton and not all that smoothly. Flooded easily too. Well I got her cheap with the plan to repair/replace as needed. And have. The deeper I dug the more I found though. Fuel lines degraded, stator wiring insulation was gone, water pump impellor was shot. Oil/water green goo mix drained out of l/u exhaust. Signs of no routine maintenance and age. I pulled the powerhead last winter and found a ton of carbon buildup in the exhaust manifold and exhaust tube. Exhaust drop tube was nearly clogged. Since this was a winter project, we pulled apart the engine and honed the cylinders, replaced the rings and all needle bearings, reeds, oil seals and bearings, and carefully reassembled the powerhead. We installed a new CDI 174-5454K1 Stator, CDI 194-5279 Regulator, four new Sierra 18-5186 coils (two original ones were cracked), new starter solenoid and replaced starter brushes. Didn't replace the switchbox or the trigger since they were very new already. Also cleaned and replaced the carb parts, needles/ floats and all gaskets. New fuel lines, prime bulb and filter. New wiring as needed. Lower unit got a new shift-shaft seal, water pump housing and impellor. And a pressure/vacuum test. All went fairly well. Had to re-do the carb float adjustment once to get the needle to seat properly. The top carb would shoot gas out of air intake. We used our Merc manual and I-Boats forum ALOT including Clams "Link and Sync" to get her running nicely in time for spring thaw. We broke her in per the manual and re-propped to get RPM up around 5300. Shes been a good boat since. Runs strong and charges at 14.1V. Loads of fish hauled in! Lots of great memories and beautiful sunsets.

Sorry for the rambling. Just thought the history would answer some questions. I'm willing to try about anything to figure out what's up.
Thanks!
Troy
 

Laddies

Banned
Joined
Sep 10, 2004
Messages
12,218
Re: 1986 Classic 50 45hp Troubleshooting help

Swap the plug to another cyl and see if it cleans up, my guess is 1 bad plug or just change it and see if that fixs the miss
 

FLATHEAD MAC

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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May 11, 2009
Messages
116
Re: 1986 Classic 50 45hp Troubleshooting help

Did you pump primer bulb while engine running durring thr "stutteer" @90 - 100% this would rule out fuel pump operation at high speed. Just a thought good luck
 

ksbass

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Joined
Aug 25, 2010
Messages
7
Re: 1986 Classic 50 45hp Troubleshooting help

Laddies,
I had a spare set of plugs so changed them today right before the rain started. Now a cold front. Ugh! Winter. I'll run it out next chance I get.

Just curious. What about the timing? I set it per the sticker on the engine. Something like set at 30degrees advance at 300 RPM to get 33 degrees at 5500 RPM. Numbers might be off. Anyway, that was from 1986. Still applicable today with the gas? Would it do me any good to check the timing on the water at WOT? What value should I set it at? Not trying to fix the fouled plug or stuttering, just optimize performance.

Flathead, Yes actually did try to squeeze bulb. I was surprised it was tight and I squeezed hard and flooded out and killed the engine. Had to disconnect the fuel line to get running again then plugged the fuel line back in. I was surprised that the bulb would be so firm at WOT. Stuttering was too sharp to be a fuel supply problem IMO. Interesting though.

Thanks guys! I truly appreciate the help!
Troy
 

Laddies

Banned
Joined
Sep 10, 2004
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12,218
Re: 1986 Classic 50 45hp Troubleshooting help

None of the plugs showed heat so I don't believe that you have pre ignition. If you look at the center electrode on the plugs, the edges are sharp (new plugs) 3 are burned clean on the edges and the other is black (fouled) also that plug shows carbon tracking on the insulator which is typical of a plug with a intermittent high speed miss.
 

CharlieB

Vice Admiral
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
5,617
Re: 1986 Classic 50 45hp Troubleshooting help

Do you have a water separating fuel filter installed?

A drop of water in one carb can cause momentary stuttering of a cyl, other wise, check the float level just to be sure that the one isn't a bit higher than the rest.

Squeezing the primer much harder than a firm handshake can raise pressure and overcome the float/needle seal. I'd still try it again with the motor OFF, throttle WOT, trim dead level while watching down the carb throats to see if #3 floods easier than the others.
 

ksbass

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Joined
Aug 25, 2010
Messages
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Re: 1986 Classic 50 45hp Troubleshooting help

Thanks Laddies. That makes sense. Hopefully a $2 new plug will end the mis.

Charlie B. No water separating filter. Just the stock fine mesh filter. Keeps the big crumbs out that's about it. Sure could be water though. We've had several temperature cycles here in the past three weeks and I noticed condensation on the OUTSIDE of the tank opposite the fuel level. Do you mean to try to squeeze the bulb until firm while watching for fuel leaking thru bottom carb. I did that if that is what you meant. It firmed up nicely with no leaks in either carb. I did not squeeze so hard as to overdo the seal. Should I?
Thanks!
Troy
 

CharlieB

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Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
5,617
Re: 1986 Classic 50 45hp Troubleshooting help

Fuel pump only provides @ 3 - 4 PSI, a firm handshake on the primer. A serious squeeze on the bulb can exceed that and cause flooding.

I was just curious if the one carb was flooding, maybe trim level and idle on the hose to watch and see if it looks like more fuel is drawn from the one, causing a richer mixture than the others.

Even a 1/16 difference in float height can cause a difference in mixture.
 

ksbass

Cadet
Joined
Aug 25, 2010
Messages
7
Re: 1986 Classic 50 45hp Troubleshooting help

Here's an update on my '86 Merc Classic 45.
Back in early Dec. I replaced the plugs and wow what a difference that made. With the mild winter this year I continued to boat and fish throughout the last several months. Kept thinking a winterizing was going to be needed but never needed to. Anyway, I've had some great crappie days this past winter and now white bass and cats are heating up. The Merc had ran great, no stuttering, since the new plugs went in last Dec. until last Wed evening. I was trolling (~1100 rpm) wed night and the motor began to run much smoother but sounded odd. The fishing was hot so didn't give it a second thought. After sunset I brought my rods in and headed for the ramp. The Merc sounded bogged down and could only muster 3800 RPM. Is was running very smoothly though. I squeezed the primer bulb and it was firm. I pulled the fuel line and let her run until she died. I primed again and took off. Same thing. 3/4 speed and 3800 RPM. I pulled the plugs when I got home and although they were carboned some, they didn't look too bad and all looked about the same this time. I went ahead and replaced them again. I ran it yesterday at a local lake for 15 minutes with no improvement. I pulled the plugs and #2 was totally clean. Troubleshooting revealed a dead coil pac. Zip on the output. No spark. Theres one per cylinder and all had been replaced last year when we rebuilt the engine. Go figure. These are the Sierra 18-5186 coils. Anyway a $25 part and it will be here in a few days. What was really odd was that the engine ran super smooth with only 3 cylinders firing. I'm thinking an intermittent coil pack had been my problem all along. I ordered 2 to have a spare and also sent an email to Sierra to see if they will honor their lifetime warranty. Hope to be back on the water next weekend.
Thanks all for your help!
Troy
 

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