1986 Force 50HP CARB question

[Ticket2Ride1]

Hi....I have a 507F6A, aka 507F86A....the carb is stamped "13WE" (FK)628061 on the flange...
I bought a few spare carbs, they look exactly the same, except they are stamed "WE17" (F)628061-1 on the mounting flange.
I cross referenced and examined the internal/external parts used on both, they only differ by the year made and have the same part numbers from what I can tell......so I'm wondering if WE17 supercedes WE13...an older part number, i.e.....1986 vs. 1988.
I bought a few spares because they are all obsolete, and I'm still looking for a few extra springs that hold the nozzle in. Apparantly, people lose them when they remove the bowl if they dont remove the carb first, and I'd like to make my spares complete. (Blowout #26) F10204 NOZZLE SPRING in case anyone has an extra spring as it probably was kicked behind a :behindsofa: lol

Thanks in advance

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 1986 Force 50HP CARB question

Some of the carbs didn't have a spring.
If the throat measures the same?
And if the jets all have the same #s they will work.
I started working on these in 85 and have never seen a carb go bad.
Some were so dirty you couldn't read the jet #'s
But they still worked after a cleaning.

 

[Ticket2Ride1]

Re: 1986 Force 50HP CARB question

The jets are all the same, 046 and 084....throats are same also. I'm sure they all need the spring, otherwise the nozzle will drop down. The spring helps the nozzle stay in place via the bowl retaining screw, but they are obsolete too. In any case, I guess there's no other way to find a tech. bulletin indicating what would differ between them or why they stopped making the WE13 and started making the WE17, even tho tho they appear 100% the same. At least I have a spares now, except for the nozzle springs.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 1986 Force 50HP CARB question

You really do not need to worry: Almost any WE or WB carb with a 1 5/16 venturi will work on that engine. For example, you can use a WB off an 85 HP engine (3 cylinder) or a WB off an old Chrysler 105 (4 cylinder).

The springs can be almost anything reasonably close to the original size and probably can be found at Lowes , Home depot, or Sears. WB carbs have a screw-in dip tube and no spring.

Sometimes the different carb numbers are because of the way the carb is vented to ensure uniform fuel flow throughout the airflow range. Sometimes it is as simple as which inlet tee or angle is installed.

 

[Ticket2Ride1]

Re: 1986 Force 50HP CARB question

Hi Frank, my engine only has one carb, it's a 50HP, has 2 sets of points in it, have you ever tried to do timing on these relics?
I was at Sands in Bethlehen tonight, you might be close to my house, and my engine bogs out at WOT, and I just replaced the powerhead, I have 125 on both cylinders, but because it bogs out, I am afraid to take it in Hudson River under GWB for stripers, I lost the last powerhead in Lake Hopatcong, the rod bearing broke on the crank, probably because I used crappy oil from WalMart.....but....I got lucky, the replacement short block came from Arizona at a total cost of 250 dollars, minus the gaskets. I have a spare spacer plate also from said purchace in case anyone needs one.
I think the engine tops out at about 4000RPM (by ear), boat only tops out about 22 MPH, not sure if its a carb issue or timing, these engines are picky, thats why I bought extra carbs, seems like same result when I swap with other carbs...., I have the book, the OEM book 84-86 (OB 4129) engine specific, but the photos/directions are not very good, and it seems sort of generalized, I maybe should have bought a Clymers or Selec for it.
I hope I can find some close to NJ to check/adjust the timing. None of the Marina's here by Lake Hopatcong will touch a motor like this which is over 10 years old, it's probably timing, or maybe the rubber in ALL the float seats are bad from ethanol fuel.
I have a few kits here to change the rubber needle seat, but I cant figure out how to pull the cir-clip and re-seat the new one, the OB 4129 service manual is useless to do that job. That's why I bought a few spares to swap out. It's on a NICE 1986 MFB Gypsy 15 TriHull.
MFB bought the molds from MFG in 1982 to replicate those tri-hull boats, if my years are correct.
Boat was made in Pennsylvania, solid transom, and I put a new floor in it in the springtime. I only paid 300 dollars for the whole rig in East Stroutsburgh last winter, I really would like a local guy to look at the new shortblock I installed, the compression is very good, and I have spare reeds, but I am sure the reeds are fine, not back-firing or anything, and I did my best to get the points to fire 180 degrees apart, spot on, and put a strobe on the the calage mark to check, I need a tach, maybe, but I know it's bogging at WOT.
Anyway, I go to Sands in Bethlehen every weekend, I hope you know about these twin cyl. 2-stroke to lend a helping hand, and the beer by Sands will be free....lol

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 1986 Force 50HP CARB question

If your getting up to 4000"by ear"?? Sounds like it's running.
Get a real tach.
The boat and motor combo??
Not the original motor?
Might need a different prop?What's on it?
50hp on a tri-hull might not be enough.Even at 15ft.that outfit can be heavy.
I had one and it was heavy.
Got a manual?The factory is the best.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 1986 Force 50HP CARB question

FIRST: You simply can not tell RPM by ear. The only thing you can tell is if the engine is going fast or slow.

Man: You were writing about my old stomping grounds: I used to live in Yonkers and for a number of years would trailer over to Greenwood lake. But, I also frequented the Hudson. I circumnavigated Manhattan, ran Hells Gate, and ran the small tributary by the Coast Guard station. It can only be done at high tide. I also ran the river up to the locks and took the canal into Canada. I was only on Hopatcong once.

Well, enough. On your 15 footer with that engine in good running condition you would expect about 25-27 MPH with you alone, assuming the correct prop (Probably a 10 3/8 X 13 Aftermarket. The stock props are simply too thick.)

I have a couple of these older engines and they are easy to work on. Keep the gas-oil mix at 50 to 1 and some of them will run forever. It was an old Chrysler 55 that I ran up to Canada--Five days up and four days back running about 6-8 hours a day at cruise speed.

A difference of .001 in point gap will translate into one degree timing difference. So you set both sets of points to .020 and try to be as accurate as possible. HOWEVER: Unless you timing was way off, engine bogging at full throttle is usually a fuel issue. So, check the fuel pump, carb float level and the quick-connect fuel fittings. ALSO, look for a partial clog in the fuel tank strainer if it has one. When you check timing against the block pointer (if it has one) if timing is incorrect, you adjust the long rod that passes under the flywheel. Making it shorter advances timing.

There is nothing wrong with Wal-Mart TCW-3 oil. In fact, it has a better additive package than some of the branded oils. I use it all the time. Just do not use automotive oil. These multi-weight oils will harm a two cycle outboard.

I simply can not get to Bethlehem. It is about 2 hours away from my house BUT: If you ever wanted to trailer to Phoenixville, my partner and I have a shop and do all sorts of repairs. In fact, your MFG is probably rated for an 85 and we do have a bolt-on 85 available cheap. That would get you up to 35 or more MPH. If interested, send me a private message.

 

[Ticket2Ride1]

Re: 1986 Force 50HP CARB question

Hi Frank, it was great pleasure to talk to you. I love how your engines rev high in the vids I see on YouTube. I can't wait to see you next week so you can make mine go faster.
I had a bad day today, the hawks came and kidnapped some of my Japanese Bantam chickens from my yard. I'm really mad because they made good eggs for me and for my friends who like to buy eggs fresh farm eggs. I no longer have a Japanese Rooster anymore, so I can't incubate any baby chicks either. It really has me fuming now, mad as hell. And the hawk came back 5 more times today looking for another victim or "meal"
Anyway, I should be heading down there as planned, hopefully on Saturday. I'll be in touch. Thanks.
Casey