1986 Force 50hp Why can't I find anything about them? Need help! Impeller, coil

[Lukelona]

I can't seem to find anything about my engine.
Its a 1986 50 Force outboard.
It has been sitting two years I need to get it running.
Engine looks very clean and has tons of compression.
I was told last it ran had the carb rebuilt, took it out and wasnt pumping water.

I heard these motors dont "pee"from a tell tale like most
How do you tell if impeller is working?

Also if anyone knows instructions on how to change the impeller on this engine I would be ecstatic!
I'm confused how to disconnect linkage and also how to adjust it properly so it does not wear out the clutch dog gears .

thanks a ton! Any help is great!

 

[roscoe]

Re: 1986 Force 50hp Why can't I find anything about them? Need help! Impeller, co

Welcome to iboats.

OK, congrats on the new boat.

Don't mean to put you off, but there are some things you need to know about Force motors.
History wise, they were owned by US Marine Corp from 1984 thru 1989/90.
Then they were sold to Mercury Marine.
Mercury discontinued the Force line after the 1999 model year, so they have been out of production for 14 years now.
In addition, Mercury has been fazing out factory support for these motors.

So, some parts are still available from a Mercury dealer.
Some parts are available from aftermarket suppliers like Sierra and Mallory.
And some parts like electronics are available from suppliers like CDI ignitions.
And some parts are no longer available new, so the ebay used parts market is the place to go.


3 choices for service manuals.
Factory manuals are available on ebay. They are hp and year specific.
THe 50 hp changed ignitions in '87, then again in 92. Some ignition parts can be intermixed, some can't.

Second choice for a manual is a Clymer Force Repair manual. It covers all hp and years, but does a decent job with troubleshooting tests and photos.

Last choice in my opinion, is a Seloc repair manual. Have found errors and omissions, and generally a lack of model specific details.

To find the correct aftermarket parts you often need the original factory part number, or the motor's model number.
Find your factory part number on the mercury dealer website below, then search for the part number in the aftermarket arena, like here on iboats.

FORCE 1986 50 H.P. - Mercury, Mercruiser, Force, etc. Parts Lookup


Force Outboard Parts - iboats

If you can't find the part here on iboats, then google the part number for other sources.


Your impeller factory part number is F433065 , $18 from a Mercury dealer. Some may list it as F433065-2 , same part.

Your ignition coil should be 803830T , $135

Generally speaking, if Mercury still provides the part, the aftermarket companies won't bother with it.
And some parts are of such low demand, that the aftermarket companies haven't developed a replacement.



There is no conventional telltale to "pee" a nice stream of water.
Your motor will spray or splatter water from the exhaust relief holes on the back of the mid section.
You can add a telltale if you like, instructions are here:

http://forums.iboats.com/force-chrysler-outboards/can-i-add-telltale-force-210027.html


Step by step impeller change instructions are here:

http://forums.iboats.com/force-chrysler-outboards/step-step-impeller-change-231685.html

They are for a 125 hp Force.
Specifics for your motor will be a little different.
The Clymer manual does a good job on impeller changes.


So, good luck and don't be afraid to ask questions along the way.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 1986 Force 50hp Why can't I find anything about them? Need help! Impeller, co

Way to go Roscoe!!! Great post!

 

[Lukelona]

Re: 1986 Force 50hp Why can't I find anything about them? Need help! Impeller, co

A few questions for anyone still following this thread...

my engine is 1986 force 50. will this coil work on it?

EBAY listing:
"Mercury Force 50 Hp Coils 1985 FF380475 Fits many model years & Hp's"

They look identical, did they make different ones that look like this?



Also, when i dropped the leg down it came with the bronze retainer stuck on end of shaft.
From what ive reaf there should be a seal there too, i didnt see one. Could it be stuck up top?

And when i pulled the impeller housing, ther was only the metal plate. no gaskets....???
Is this correct?

 

[tater76]

Re: 1986 Force 50hp Why can't I find anything about them? Need help! Impeller, co

Not 100% sure on the coils, but they look right, didn't change for a few years.

The retainer is only there to support a grease boot on the end of the driveshaft. I have seen them run with or without these parts. I run mine without. Just grease the splines of the driveshaft well (NEVER THE TOP OF THE SHAFT).

The 50hp water pump does not have a gasket. Just the stainless plate and housing. I have experimented with adding a tiny bead of rtv, but it did nothing in my opinion. Both of my twin 50's have a telltale installed. Search this site for adding a telltale, its a great update that I do to all of the early Force and Chrysler engines I work on. Remember, water pump impellers are a yearly maintenance part. Its the best $16-$18 bucks worth of insurance you can buy.

 

[Lukelona]

Re: 1986 Force 50hp Why can't I find anything about them? Need help! Impeller, co

Not 100% sure on the coils, but they look right, didn't change for a few years.

The retainer is only there to support a grease boot on the end of the driveshaft. I have seen them run with or without these parts. I run mine without. Just grease the splines of the driveshaft well (NEVER THE TOP OF THE SHAFT).

The 50hp water pump does not have a gasket. Just the stainless plate and housing. I have experimented with adding a tiny bead of rtv, but it did nothing in my opinion. Both of my twin 50's have a telltale installed. Search this site for adding a telltale, its a great update that I do to all of the early Force and Chrysler engines I work on. Remember, water pump impellers are a yearly maintenance part. Its the best $16-$18 bucks worth of insurance you can buy.

OK Thanks, I was just wondering if someone didnt put it back togethter right.
Im gonna install the telltale asap. It seems very easy. This is how im gonna do it...
* remove threaded plug
*Add a hose barb fitting & connect 3/8 hose
*drill small hole in lower housing run hose out through hole.
*Use wire ties around hose to hold in place

I will also add a skim coat of rtv just for peace of mins :joyous:
So you think some pitting inside the housing will damage the new impeller?
Everyone ive asked locally says its fine not to worry unless there is sharp pieces sticking out.
Is this correct?

One last thing, the seal at the bottom of crankshaft looks dry and the metal around it is a little rusty, aluminum is kinda corroded.
Kinda tipical for this to happen?
How would i know if that seal is bad?

 

[Lukelona]

Re: 1986 Force 50hp Why can't I find anything about them? Need help! Impeller, co

Where can i find replacement plug wires for the new/used coils i just got?
Automotive style wires are built differently right? So not ideal to use them?
Is there a "universal" style Marine plug wire?

Should i even worry about changing them? are they like a car, in which they should be changed as routine mantainence after sitting
for a couple years?

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 1986 Force 50hp Why can't I find anything about them? Need help! Impeller, co

The coil

 

[Lukelona]

Re: 1986 Force 50hp Why can't I find anything about them? Need help! Impeller, co

The coil wire(I think is part of the coil) post a pic.
If you can get it out it's an 8mm wire.
They should be ok unless they are cracked or worn through.

The only way to know if a seal is bad is a pressure test.

i just purchased two coils from ebay they both have wires removed, ( i hope u can remove them )

Also, what do you mean by a pressure test? how would you perform that?
what does this seal block? water? L/U oil?

 

[Lukelona]

Re: 1986 Force 50hp Why can't I find anything about them? Need help! Impeller, co

???

 

[roscoe]

Re: 1986 Force 50hp Why can't I find anything about them? Need help! Impeller, co

If the crankshaft seals were bad, you would have low compression, poor running engine.


You need to use copper wire plug wires.

Don't use modern day auto wires, as they are high resistance and your ignition system will not work with them.

They sell the wires at Merc dealers.
Or you can go to auto parts store and buy wire, just make sure you get copper wires. They use this type of wires on old cars, so the auto parts store can get them. You may have to buy the wire by the foot, and put the ends on yourself.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 1986 Force 50hp Why can't I find anything about them? Need help! Impeller, co

Pics???

 

[Lukelona]

Re: 1986 Force 50hp Why can't I find anything about them? Need help! Impeller, co

 

[Lukelona]

Re: 1986 Force 50hp Why can't I find anything about them? Need help! Impeller, co

The coil

??What is meant by simply, "the coil"

 

[Nordin]

Re: 1986 Force 50hp Why can't I find anything about them? Need help! Impeller, co

Change the coilwires from your "old" coils to the coils you bought from Ebay. You have to pull them from the end of the coil and you may use a bit of force.
Normally the wires do not go bad they last long for many years. Check the spring in the boot that attach the plug. It might be rust at the springwire.
You may have to cut a bit of the wireend and stick the spring in and make a new hole in the wire.

BTW About new copper wires, here in Sweden you can buy them as "bulk" and make the wirelength by your self. You even buy the end parts and put them on the wires.

 

[Lukelona]

Re: 1986 Force 50hp Why can't I find anything about them? Need help! Impeller, co

OK I wil do that, ill switch the wires and let yall know how she runs.
If its "choppy" at all ill replace them with copper.
thanks again

 

[Lukelona]

Re: 1986 Force 50hp Why can't I find anything about them? Need help! Impeller, co

The coils i bought from ebay are the same, but one is cracked, and has a piece of the instulation coating chipped from the clamp style mount pinching it.
They came from a running engine, will a crack in just the coating on outside affect them?
I have a 60sec epoxy i could use on it, or JB waterweld maybe? Both?
Either way i have two extra,
the original ones that are still on my engine are supposed to be good, but each have a crack in them also.
Should i just epoxy the ones that are on my engine and carry them others for spares?

 

[Lukelona]

Re: 1986 Force 50hp Why can't I find anything about them? Need help! Impeller, co

bump

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 1986 Force 50hp Why can't I find anything about them? Need help! Impeller, co

Sorry about the coil post.There was more to it, but no idea where it went.
817765A 2 is the part # for the coil wire.
Try the epoxy and see if it still sparks.

 

[Lukelona]

Re: 1986 Force 50hp Why can't I find anything about them? Need help! Impeller, co

No problem, Ok, im gna try the epoxy n ill post the results when I do.
thanks a bunch