1988 Evinrude 50hp VRO will not idle

[DaveAF]

I am brand new hear and also brand new to outboards. I have a 1988 Evinrude 50 hp VRO E50BECCS 1988 on a 20 foot pontoon boat. I just boat it off a guy that had it out of the water since August. He told me that he ran the carbs dry.
The first time out it would start but it would be a hard start. It ran in gear but wouldnt idle. It finally stranded me and I was towed in. I took it to the a marine dealer and the tech checked it out. He said that the compression was good; he gave me the numbers but I forgot. He also said that the leak down seemed good, but was a little low.
Now today he calls me and has rebuilt both carbs, and fixed and air leak in the VRO system as well as the alarm and changed the water pump. I told him to do this work so this good, but he still cant get the engine to idle. He is thinking that the powerhead will need to be rebuilt, or a reman powerhead.
He said it would run good in the test bin, but not idle.
I dont think that he is trying to rip me off, because he isnt charging me for the rebuild of the carbs.
So my questions is should I go that route or could it be a problem with the VRO pump or still a dirty carb?
I got the pontoon boat at a great price so I can afford a small amount to get it running, but I dont want to go over 2000.00 Also here is another kicker, we own a 2006 Tracker Pro Team 170 with a 50 hp Merc that has about 30 hrs on it.
It is very tempting to swap engines, but I really dont know what to do with the Tracker then.
So I am asking advice and appericate any that I get.
Dave

 

[HighTrim]

Re: 1988 Evinrude 50hp VRO will not idle

Welcome to iboats Dave.

Just as a note, I realize that it was not you that did it, but never run a multi cylinder outboard dry as the previous owner did. Then you may really need a new power head. Simly add an additive such as Seafoam or Stabil to your fuel.

I am not understanding his reasoning behind needing a new powerhead, especially with good compression and leak down numbers.

The idle should be around 650 RPM under load in gear. Did he lync n sync it after?

What is your starting procedure? Check out the FAQ for a thread entitled "Cold Start Procedures"

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: 1988 Evinrude 50hp VRO will not idle

get the compression #s again and post them. could be link n sinc. could be idle speed set too low. is he a certified Johnson/evinrude mechanic?

typing at same time again.

 

[DaveAF]

Re: 1988 Evinrude 50hp VRO will not idle

Well I believe that he is a certified Evinrude mechanic. I thought that I new powerhead sounded kind of odd. I dont know alot about 2-stroke engines but I figured that if the engine has compression that it should run, also that idle is more dependent on carbs than on compression right? He did say that it would run good when it was throttled up, but it wouldnt idle. He thought that a piece of carbon may have damaged the cylinder walls??????
So good advice would be to pay for the work done and bring the boat home to find another mechanic. I am mechanically inclined and have purchased a manual, so is sync and link hard to do.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: 1988 Evinrude 50hp VRO will not idle

follow the step by step procedure in the manual. if you miss a step, start from the beginning. a piece of carbon damaging the cylinder walls? how does he know without pulling the heads. it would show on the compression, and leakdown.

 

[DaveAF]

Re: 1988 Evinrude 50hp VRO will not idle

I am glad that looked to this forum for advice. Thank you. I will get the boat back look at the manual.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: 1988 Evinrude 50hp VRO will not idle

i have the same motor, without the vro.

 

[HighTrim]

Re: 1988 Evinrude 50hp VRO will not idle

typing at same time again.

At least we are on the same page We do seem to type at about the same speed.

 

[DaveAF]

Re: 1988 Evinrude 50hp VRO will not idle

So are these engines strong mechanically, I guess what I mean is bearing, crank, piston and rings that kind of thing. I am learning about outboards, they are totally different from a automotive engine. I did price rebuilt powerheads and a reman one was 1300-1400, and I really dont want to sink that much in especially if it is fuel or ignition issue. That is a 1/3 of a new 50 2-stroke, and after I sale the Tracker I could afford the new engine. Also this is a fishing boat, get me to the fishing hole and then shut down and troll with the trolling motor. My first engine is the Merc 50 that is brand new; so I havent gotten my hands dirty with it.

Would it be a good idea instead of rebuilding those carbs to spend the extra and replace them. Also can you swap out the VRO to a premixed type pump? From what I am reading those pumps can cause problems when it comes to idling. I read over the manual last night and the link and sync doesnt seem that difficult. The Clymer manual is a little hard to read though.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: 1988 Evinrude 50hp VRO will not idle

yes you can change over to a permix pump. what i have is a 1988 48 spl, which is a 50hp without the vro. you can also make you vro a premix pump, by unpluging the alarm sending wire, and blocking off the oil line. get it home, do a compression test on it, and spark test and post your results. we go from there. remember you are our eyes and ears.

 

[ezeke]

Re: 1988 Evinrude 50hp VRO will not idle

First off, the service manual says your idle in gear should be 750 RPM. See page 1-8

Secondly, make sure that the spark plugs are Champion
L78V Surface Gap or QL77JC4 @ .030. The L78V is the preferred plug according to boatsetup .com

Check carefully for air leaks anywhere on your fuel system and around carburetors and intake manifold gaskets.

 

[DaveAF]

Re: 1988 Evinrude 50hp VRO will not idle

Advice on the best way to check for air leaks. Use a specific medium; WD-40, soapy water, fogging oil, starting fluidor what??

 

[Silvertip]

Re: 1988 Evinrude 50hp VRO will not idle

You don't need new carburetors, you don't need a new power head, you don't need to defeat the VRO (yet), but what you do need is a technician that knows what he is doing. Everything he told you is contrary to logic. If carbon damaged a cylinder wall that cylinder would be down on compression. If a leakdown test was "marginal" he should at least do a decarb on the motor but I doubt that's an issue either since compression is normal. I suspect he has not checked the ignition system, does not know how to set the carbs or do a link&sync and has probably not thoroughly cleaned the carbs. That is a two cylinder engine and things need to be clean and set properly to achieve a stable idle. That engine will idle all day long with narry a hickup when properly tuned. Lastly, are you running fresh fuel. If not, that alone is the issue as the fuel is now six months old. As for the VRO, make sure the oil level is dropping in the tank in proportion to the amount of fuel being used which at 50:1 ratio is one pint/six gallons of fuel.

 

[DaveAF]

Re: 1988 Evinrude 50hp VRO will not idle

I put fresh fuel in the tank, after I siphoned it all out. When I had it out on the water I didnt notice the oil in the tank decreasing. I did notice that the bulb on the oil tank was extremely hard to pump. Almost to the point I couldnt do it. I do know that when we were trying to start it I could see oil floating in the water from the exhaust I figure This Tech sounds really young, and sounds frustrated with it when I talked with him last night. The more I read the more I think that when the guy before me ran it dry he really did a number on the carbs.
I should have done my research here before I took to the dealer.

 

[DaveAF]

Re: 1988 Evinrude 50hp VRO will not idle

Well just got off the phone with the shop. He gave me the bad news about the engine. To put a reman powerhead, parts and labor I am looking at about $3000.00. Now I know that no way I am going to do this a brand new E-Tec is around $6,000. This would be nuts.
I asked him about the compression numbers, now I know that I will recheck this myself, but 145lbs on one and 150lbs on the other. He said that the leak down was 20% and would drop when it warmed up. He did say that it would run out on the open water but wouldnt idle around the dock. He did the water pump change and other work and has charged me $376.66 so I will pay this.
So do you think I can get this engine to get me around for a few months.

Oh yea I forgot, he told me that he had a scope and could see lots of scratches in the top cylinder with this scope.

 

[wavrider]

Re: 1988 Evinrude 50hp VRO will not idle

Bring the boat home.

Get manual, prefer EOM manual if you can locate one.

Read FAQ section, link n sync, carb adjustments, set timing in accordance with manual.

any questions come back forum and ask before you start any procedure.

with compression readings like that, a good ignition and proper adjustments made for carb and timing that engine will idle all day long without a sneeze or cough.

Tools you will need, simple hand tools, wrenches, sockets, screwdrivers, inductive timing light, spark tester any auto parts store will have one.

Usually poor idle is dirty jets in the carbs, or inproper link n sync

Look forward to the threads and hearing how it is going to turn out.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: 1988 Evinrude 50hp VRO will not idle

Think about the oil consumption test I just mentioned. You cannot possibly see oil level going down on a short jaunt on the water. Mark the tank oil level. Run about two tanks of fuel through the engine and then add two pints of oil. the level should be back where you started. Until you are certain its working ok, you might add some oil to the fuel tank. I agree -- bring the boat home as you can probably do as good a job as this tech can do. He is making no sense whatsoever.

 

[DaveAF]

Re: 1988 Evinrude 50hp VRO will not idle

So you add the 2pints before running the two tanks through? I had planned on pre-mixing the fuel as well. Does it sound a little screwy to "scope" an outboard. I know that on automotive type of troubleshooting may not reveal true mechanical state of the top end. He told me that the top cylinder didnt have enough pressure to run at idle The basics I think are if you have fuel and spark you should get some idle, may hiccup a little and may not have the strongest top end.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: 1988 Evinrude 50hp VRO will not idle

the will run on one cylinder, even idle, not well but they will.

 

[DaveAF]

Re: 1988 Evinrude 50hp VRO will not idle

Ok I got the boat back and started just to take a look around the engine. First thing that I found was that the fuel line may have been hooked up wrong. The arrow on the bulb was pointing back toward the fuel tank. I dont know if I hook this up wrong or if they did it at the shop; but I would have thought that a tech would have found that.
Second thing is that the fuel tank is a plastic one. I have been doing a little research with this engine and help out on this one, but doesn the tank need to vent a little through the cap. I found the cap has a vent, but the vent was screwed down tight, so I am guessing that it wasnt venting at all.

Tommorrow I am going to put the engine in a "garabage can" and see if I can warm up the engine. I just want to see if it will idle.