1988 Force 85hp running issues

[WaveJumpingMaxum]

ok so i took my boat out to enjoy the 4th of july weekend. found some issues that completely stumped me and my cousins. first off , i am mixing the gas 50:1 with a ratio right, 6 gallons of gas to 16 ounces of oil. the first time i took the boat out which was a couple weeks ago i had to drop the carbs (put paper under carbs to ensure i didnt lose ANYTHING) and throw in new plugs to prevent it from stalling out when going from a sitting idle to taking off.still had to punch it to get it to move at all like* wide open throttle once moving i had momenteum and could ease into about half throttle 2500-3000 rpm nd take off easily*. i added dry gas to remove any water in the system cause i kept hearing that huccup like water was in the gas. the boat runs fine wide open but the second i throttle down it starts sputtering out. noticed the plugs turned black in less then a week, put brand new spares i had in and they turned just as black and burnt in one day on > 6 gallons of fuel 93 octane mixed 50:1 with penzoil 2 stroke marine oil.couldnt even make it through the whole tank. then when dropping the carburetor flaot bowl again to try and get back to where im docked we noticed the carburetors have a* spring book shows it as a main nozzle spring located above the float bowl retaining bolt that holds in the carburetor float bowl. the bottom carb has one but the top two dont? lead me to belive the previous owner lost a sping when "rebuilding the carbs", in the chylmers book the carb set up i belive have shows all 3 having springs.* also checked the fuel line up to the filter its clean looks brand new, filter looks brand new, tank is super clean and was used on other boat with no issues at all.i have a lose hose in the bottom of the cowl from missing my air cleaner but was told in my previous post that it sucks up excess fuel and that it is unlikely water gets in that way, air box arrived today so that problem will be fixed after i finish this post. primer ball off tank stays hard when running so im ruling out fuel pump? is there a way water and or sludgy oil can be in the lines on the other side of the fuel filter? any advice or knowledge about similar problems would be appricated. thanks in advance - Justin

 

[WaveJumpingMaxum]

Re: 1988 Force 85hp running issues

added more info in a edit if anyone needed a better clue of what i was talking about

 

[pnwboat]

Re: 1988 Force 85hp running issues

Sounds like your running too rich maybe? Several things to check.

1. Check compression. 120LBS is typical of a well maintained motor of that age.

2. Floats in the carburetor set too high.

3. Idle mixture set too rich. Typically the needle valves should be anywhere from 1 to 1 1/2 turns out from lightly seated. Every motor is different but that about where it should be. Never less than 3/4 turn out from lightly seated. This is too lean and can cause piston damage.

4. Bad fuel pump diaphragm. Hole in the rubber diaphragm can cause excess fuel into the by-pass port.

 

[WaveJumpingMaxum]

Re: 1988 Force 85hp running issues

thanks for the reply pnwboat. i was wondering if running it missing those two springs would make it run too rich, they are in the bottom of the float bowl right above the float bowl retaining bolt. but wouldnt that if anything push the floats higher? unfourtnatly its raining today and i just pulled my boat last night bsiut my understanding of the carbs is theyre fairly simple just dont mix up the parts between carbs.link nd sync properly when finished. are they set up like carb 1 - idle, carb 2 - medium speed, carb 3 - full throttle? i was told thats the point of 3 carbs but would like some confirm / deny before i start unbolting things. thanks -justin

 

[pacnwguy]

Re: 1988 Force 85hp running issues

Same issue on my Force 90. Just had mechanic out and he said it was running too lean. Solved my problem by riching up the mixture on the carbs. Runs perfect now.

 

[WaveJumpingMaxum]

Re: 1988 Force 85hp running issues

just wantred to update everyone made some overall boat progress, nothing major. ok today i took all 3 carbs off. went to put replacement springs in and didnt like how the floats sat so figured id take the extra time to take them off and reset the float by what the shop manual says inverting the carb one at a time, when i held them upside down the floats sat in place nicely added spring (goes on a jet above float bowl retaining bolt. nd float bowl retaining bolt easily with the carbs inverted reasembled. the tricky part was reattaching the carbs nd link and sync. lucky magic marker saved the spot where all those tricky choke and throttle connectors go. then waxed the boat with a buffing compound and wax all in 1 bottle 30$ at cableas for a quart but after a good hr it looks like brand new. nice shine compared to the chalky dull whiteness that boats get when they sit. i have a couple pics of before and after if anyone wants to see just ask. my next and hopefully final question is how is that air and fuel mixture adjusted on these carbs, i see only one adjustment screw in the clymers book and it really doesnt go into detail on it. shows each carb with a idle mixture screw? its on the face of the carb inbetween and above the holes where the air baffle goes on. gonna try and adjust the idle in the driveway on muffs tomorrow if i can if not ill do it on the water just hoping thats the only screw that needs adjusting

 

[WaveJumpingMaxum]

Re: 1988 Force 85hp running issues

ok got the air baffle and the boat fired right up but didnt seem to be running right, figured out that the throttle lync and sync isnt done right. in neuteral i have no throttle, push the gas all the way down and it barely opens. starts quick wont stay running. the throttle just seems loose, in gear i push the throttle and pretty much have to push it till its almost straight down from the 12 o clock posistion. say the throttle is at 12 in neutral im at 7 to open it wide open. it almost goes all the way around. the throttle cable seems loose to me like theres a couple extra feet. this is my first boat so i dunno how much i need for steering clearance, it worked fine before i took all 3 carbs off so im guessing i didnt link it back up right not too sure just fishing for advice at this point.

 

[WaveJumpingMaxum]

Re: 1988 Force 85hp running issues

ok noticed one of the screws and quick nuts on the link and sync bar war stripped so the bar was sliding and not engaging the top carbs. replaced it they are all linked and work when throttled by hand. the cam and roller are adjusted as described on this forum and the clymers manual. could taking the carbs off some how stretch or knock the throttle out of alingment? before i did all this work when running the boat it seemed like id have to go further then id expect (past a 90 degree angle from no throttle neutral) to get the most out of it in gear but i could rev up in nuetral. my shifter is the model you pull away from the gunwale to engage full nuetral to rev up. i know it shouldnt rev past 2500-3000 with no load on the engine but i have no throttle at all in nuetral. carbs only open 1/8-1/4 of the way. any one have ideas on it cause if i dont fix it by saturday ima swallow my pride and take it to a marina and have it fixed, but i really dont have extra cash to throw away if its only a simple cable adjustment. just have no clue on them really more of a electronics/car person, this is my first outboard and the clymers really go into adjusting shift or throttle linkage either unless i missed it. any help is appricated thanks.

 

[john from md]

Re: 1988 Force 85hp running issues

Search for my posts, pnw boats and Frank Acampora's. We have covered the basic troubleshooting of these engines for several years. The main thing to remember is you must do the checks first and then do a basic carb/sync set up. If you don't, you will just go in circles.

 

[WaveJumpingMaxum]

Re: 1988 Force 85hp running issues

what do you mean by do the checks first? i started to take off the throttle box, disconnected the throttle cable. if i push and pull it with all my might it barely budges down at the engine side the throttle cam, roller and carb lync and sync all seems to be done right i just have to push the throttle super far to get it to engage in gear. even when i first got the boat i noticed it seemed stretched having to push the throttle past a 90 degree angle to get wide open in gear and hold it to the stopping point to rev around 2500. im thinking the cable was stretched and when i took off the cam and carbs it somehow finished it off. ive tightened it all i can on the engine side and tried tightening the side of the shifter to no avail. if a throttle cable doesnt work ill prob just sell the boat as im at my witts end. haha