1989 Evinrude V6 Engine Trouble

tntwalker

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A little history... This motor has run just fine @ high end, but with a rough idle... I pulled the carbs apart and rebuilt them... Once pieced back together, it ran worse... So I threw up my hands and took it to a local mechanic who diagnosed the engine as not firing on #3 and #5 cylinders... Which shouldn't be caused by a carb problem... He checked the #3 cylinder for damage and said he found "gaulding"... Now what that means I have no clue... But he tested compression on the motor and it checked out good on all 6 cylinders... SOOOO... How can #s 3 & 5 not firing be attributed to problems with the cylinder and piston if the compression is good??<br /><br />Someone please throw me a bone... as he quoted $2,687 to replace the powerhead... plus $500 labor and $500 for a new VRO assembly... so basically $3,500 to make a $2,000 motor work right... Makes no sense to me.... <br /><br />Thanks.
 

Dhadley

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Re: 1989 Evinrude V6 Engine Trouble

Pull the head and look at it. If the piston is scored, I would rebuild that powerhead rather than replace it.<br /><br />Good luck!
 

james roach

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Re: 1989 Evinrude V6 Engine Trouble

Check your coils, plug wires, and plugs. It's a little early to think you have to replace the powerhead. The coils on these motors are prone to go bad. See for yourself if those 2 cylinders are not firing. With it running pull the plug wires one at a tinme and see if the sound of the motor changes. Stand on a ptece of wood or use plastic pliers. Your problem probably lies in this area. Too many wrenches want to rebuild your motor when it does not need it. I sure dont want to offend any mechanics on this board but I dont believe in getting something you dont need either. Add your OWN compression test to this as well. I have an 1987 200 HP Johnson and have replaced my coils within the last 14 months. Post your results.
 

tntwalker

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Re: 1989 Evinrude V6 Engine Trouble

Thanks all... I will be purchasing a compression tester tonight... I've found one at Napa for $30... I'll assume that is a reasonable price for a tester... <br /><br />I plan on doing a lot of testing this weekend on the motor... I've read and read and read some more... and everything I read says if compression is good, then the problem is either fuel or electric and not mechanical... Can valves cause a problem? My brother keeps saying "valves.. valves..." but I've read nothing that will point to valves...
 

james roach

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Re: 1989 Evinrude V6 Engine Trouble

Do the checks and see if those 2 cylinders are not firing at idle. After re-readind your post i'm thinking 1 or 2 low speed jets are not clean. What is your RPM @ WOT?
 

tntwalker

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Re: 1989 Evinrude V6 Engine Trouble

RPMs @ WOT used to be 6,000 (56mph GPS)... and occassionally you'd have to wait about 10 seconds after hammering the throttle until all 6 cylinders kicked in... Once all kicked in, they stayed kicked in until you came back down to idle... Sometimes all six would come to life immediately... other times only 4 would go and then the other two would join in a few seconds later.<br /><br />After rebuilding the carbs, it stays down at least one and maybe two cylinders at WOT... as I'm only able to get 5,000 (48mph GPS) now... It's very very hard to start now and the idle is practically non-existent... I was careful to rebuild the carbs back exactly as they were... but I have no problem with doing it again if that is what it takes....<br /><br />Electronics will be checked tonight to verify spark at all six cylinders... plus checking all plugs to see if they are wet and not damaged... <br /><br />Motor was "finicky" before, but now just plain pain in the arse... I could deal with a rough idle before, but not cylinders not firing at WOT... <br /><br />I will have actual compression readings tonight that I'll post... <br /><br />Decarb was done using SeaFoam last year and at that time did not make a difference... <br /><br />Stator and PowerPack replaced last year as recommending by a local mech... but I never saw a difference in performance...<br /><br />Can timer base or anything else cause erratic firing?<br /><br />Fishing tourneys start up in a month... Can't be boatless!!
 

james roach

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Re: 1989 Evinrude V6 Engine Trouble

Carbs or Coils. I'm inclined to say your carbs still are not clean. Start pulling plug wires. When you pull one that does not change the sound of the engine check carb and coil. You can even switch the coil around with another to alienate it. Good luck.
 

Dhadley

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Re: 1989 Evinrude V6 Engine Trouble

Is any piston(s) damaged or not?
 

tntwalker

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Re: 1989 Evinrude V6 Engine Trouble

Pardon my idiocy, but can the piston(s) be checked for damage without pulling the motor apart?
 

Dhadley

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Re: 1989 Evinrude V6 Engine Trouble

In the first post you said the mechanic reported some piston damage (gaulding). If the pistons have damage then we need to address that first. <br /><br />You mentioned you were getting a compression tester. Did you get a chance to take compression yet?
 

Cricket Too

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Re: 1989 Evinrude V6 Engine Trouble

tnt...One sure way to know if there is any mechanical damage, without taking the motor apart is compression testing, which is why dhadley is asking for the readings. Do this first, it is a good starting point. To actually look for scoring or other damage you will have to take the heads off, but don't worry about that yet. In your post you said that #3 and #5 cylinders were not firing and that it can't be caused by the carbs. It absolutely can be caused by the carbs, if you have crud stuck in the idle jet or circuit they won't fire at idle, which may be why you have no idle. Did you use a manual when you rebuilt these carbs? You need it to adjust the float levels correctly. Also did you do a link and sync after re-installing the carbs? You also asked about the timer base and can it cause cylinders to drop, yes it can, but that may be getting ahead of the game. In order to diagnose properly you need to take it one step at a time, starting small and working your way up. See if the coils are firing, take compression readings and post what you find and guys here will help you through the problem. Good luck.
 

tntwalker

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Re: 1989 Evinrude V6 Engine Trouble

Okay... Purchased Compression Tool at Advance Auto... $24.95 plus tax for the screw in type so I was able to do this by myself.. (no applause necessary... :)) Here are the readings...<br /><br />#1 - 90<br />#3 - 85<br />#5 - 88<br />#2 - 90<br />#4 - 88<br />#6 - 88<br /><br />I tested the spark by removing every plug and grounding it to the block to see spark to the plug... and all plugs had spark... and all of them appeared to have the same amt of spark... and... all of 6 of them were wet... I was able to get the motor started and running... and removed plug wires one at a time... and indeed #3 and #5 are the culprits... BUT... here is the fun part...<br /><br />Pulling #3 wire made no difference when pulled off... but when put back on, that cylinder came to life for about a sec and went out again... same with #5... <br /><br />seems kinda odd.... <br /><br />I'm anxious to hear the ideas...<br /><br />Thanks so much!
 

tntwalker

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Re: 1989 Evinrude V6 Engine Trouble

I forgot to answer a few more questions...<br /><br />mmcpeck... the reason I said #3 and #5 not firing shouldn't be related to carbs is because the middle carb supplies #3 & #4 cylinders... and the lower carb supplies #5 & #6 carbs... It was my understanding that a fouled carb would affect both carbs it is supplying... and since #4 & #6 seem to be firing okay, I ruled out carb... Mistake?<br /><br />I used a Clymer Manual to rebuild the carbs... using a Bombadier kit... rebuilt all three at the same time... I did not have a Float tool to set the levels ... but all 3 "appeared" to be the same... (I know appearances are deceiving)... All three carbs are opening and closing in unison... so Link and Synch appears sound.
 

james roach

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Re: 1989 Evinrude V6 Engine Trouble

Ok so switch the coils with 2 cylinders that are firing and see if the problem transfers to the cylinders with the problematic coils. It's time for the coils to start going bad if they are the originals. If this is the case, replace all 6.<br />Let us know how it works out.
 

tntwalker

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Re: 1989 Evinrude V6 Engine Trouble

Sigh... Switched coils and retried... no luck...<br /><br />Switched plug wires and retried... no luck.<br /><br />Can a fouled carb affect cylinder 3 and not 4? Since they are on the same carb?<br /><br />Is there perhaps something else to look for?<br /><br />Thanks so much so far!
 

Dhadley

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Re: 1989 Evinrude V6 Engine Trouble

Since youve never said what motor this really is we assume from your posts that its a crossflow. You keep mentioning that two cylinders are fed from the same carb. Kind of. On a crossflow each carb has a dual throat. Each throat feeds one cylinder. One side can be clogged causing number 3 to misbehave while number 4 is fine. One carb feeds two cylibders but both throats do not feed both cylinders.<br /><br />You can have spark on a cylinder but if its weak, it may not fire the compressed fuel properly. The clue is when you said that as you replaced the wire it fired momentarily. Holding the wire away from the plug increases the voltage temporarily.
 

tntwalker

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Re: 1989 Evinrude V6 Engine Trouble

Yes XFlow indeed... and yes the cylinder does try to come to life for an instance when applying the plug wire... but a very short instance... <br /><br />I've replaced the Stator and Powerpack recently... Is there another component that could cause weak spark to cylinders 3 and 5, but not the other four other than the power pack?<br /><br />Before dismantling and cleaning the carbs again, Is there a way I can determine if indeed the carb is the culprit? (ie... spraying premix into the throat of #3 or #5 and seeing if the cylinder comes to life)... A safe procedure for doing so would be appreciated... <br /><br />Sunday's forecast is 62 and sunny in Tennessee... Still have my fingers crossed about gettin' it going by Saturday Night...
 

arboatdr

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Re: 1989 Evinrude V6 Engine Trouble

Did you remove the carb jets? If so could you have put an idle jet in a main hole? Stranger things have kicked my but before.
 

Dhadley

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Re: 1989 Evinrude V6 Engine Trouble

Idle and high speed jets are completely different thread sizes and will not interchange.
 

Cricket Too

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Re: 1989 Evinrude V6 Engine Trouble

Just curious, what did you use to clean all of the parts of the carbs when you had them apart? Also, doesn't look like you have damage to the cylinders, compression readings look pretty good.
 
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