1989 FORCE 85 - will not start!!!

[Nemesis98]

Ok, so I bought a Clymers manual for my motor, and adjusted everything the way it should be.

Carb sync - check.

Throttle Cam touching cam follower roller - check
(as good as I can get it without bending things, just doesn't seem to want to touch, but it is damn close)

WOT adjustment - fixed that - check

Throttle stop screw - adjusted so everything above is adjusted - check

battery charged full - check

engine cranks over - check

compression test - no idea (don't have the tool)

I CAN get the engine to start, but ONLY if the throttle is opended wide (I jam something between throttle cam and throttle roller to keep it open.) But it will obviously rev RPM's very high, and if I throttle back or remove what is wedged in there, the engine stops. So I know plugs are sparking and things WILL work.

When I have engine in neutral, and push the throttle forward all the way, should that open the carbs up all the way, or should it just barley nudge them? Mine barley undges them, and no matter what adjustment I make, it will not go any further open. And if I do make any adjustment, everything else goes out of wack.

I really am frustrated with this.

 

[JB]

Re: 1989 FORCE 85 - will not start!!!

Troubleshoot, Nemesis.

What happens if you. . . . .

No, just go to the Engine FAQs and do the "Outboard won't start" troubleshooting. You will probably find that your carbs are pretty messed up and need a thorough cleaning.

When in Neutral the carbs are blocked from opening all the way so you don't blow it up.

 

[roscoe]

Re: 1989 FORCE 85 - will not start!!!

Carbs will probably not open all the way unless running.

Is the choke working?
Are you using the choke?
You do need to advance the throttle to start the engine, but it is done on the shift control handle by pulling the shift handle toward the center of the boat, then pushing forward. This will advance the throttle without shifting into gear.

Open fuel tank vent

Check the kill switch, place in "run" position

Squeeze fuel primer bulb till firm.

Advance the throttle 3/4 way, without putting it in gear. -- This is done by either pushing a button in the center of the controls, or pulling the shift handle toward the driver, or raising the fast idle lever, all depending on what control unit you have.

Activate the choke (fuel enrichment valve) by pushing in on the key. The valve is only open while the key is being pushed in.

Turn the key to start while continuing to hold the key in.

Release the key and choke when it starts.

3-5 seconds of "choke", is usually enough.

Be ready to pull the throttle back toward the idle/neutral position, when the engine starts and the revs increase.

Continue to pull the throttle back as the engine warms up.

You should not have to use the choke much, if at all, once the engine has warmed up.

Engine should start within 10 seconds of turning the key.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 1989 FORCE 85 - will not start!!!

Let's go back to the beginning. The roller must contact the cam at the pointer! Close enough is not good enough! Unscrew (or screw in) the throttle stop screw until the pointer on the cam (or two lines) is/are pointing directly at the follower roller. If the throttle stop screw is not somewhere near centered, then the ball link between the tower and the throttle cam is either too long or too short.

NOW--- The roller is on an eccentric screw. Loosen the nut and turn the roller screw until the roller just touches the cam. It must touch at some setting. If it does not, then the throttle arm or the shaft on the carb is bent. If it is bent, remove the carb, remove the butterfly, remove the shaft and arm, and carefully straighten it with a small fine adjustment tool on an anvil of some sort. You can do it the easy way by just bending with a pliers but that is not good since it puts torque on the peened end of the shaft, possibly loosening it. Don't get too happy with the hammer since the shaft is brass and has a slot for the butterfly plate. When you replace the butterfly plate, use locktite on the screws so the engine doesn't eat one of them. Careful: Note that the butterfly plate has beveled edges and only goes in one way. Come to think of it: Did you rebuild the carbs? Did you install the butterfly plates the correct way? If they are installed backwards, the roller will not contact the cam at the reference marks.

Now put the engine in fast idle and note the position of the cam; it won't go very far because on the shift linkage below the bottom carb is a stop block (it moves up or down, out of the way, when in gear) that the tower contacts so you can not rev over 2000 or so in neutral. The timing will advance about 2 or 3 degrees (further than at idle) and the carbs will just crack a bit more open.

With the engine not running and the throttle set to WOT, check to be certain the carb butterflies are substantially fully open (horizontal.) Adjust the ball link to acheive this.

Now set the timing at WOT--look up other posts-- Then after the engine is warm, set the idle stop screw so idle in forward gear in the water is 700-750.

Note that the cam pointer is a reference mark used only to set the proper adjustment of the roller. At correct idle speed, it will be slightly below the roller, carbs will be just barely cracked open if at all, and timing will be somewhere around 2 degrees before TDC

 

[Nemesis98]

Re: 1989 FORCE 85 - will not start!!!

Ok, I decided to give it a try again after sitting on it for a week. I bought new plugs and installed them, went thru to double-check that the cam is against the roller and centered, everything looks great.

Turn the key - still will not start! Cranks over just great, but not starting. I am using the choke for a bit as it cranks over, and it will cough a bit etc. But other than that, nothing. Again, I jammed something to keep the throttle open on the carbs as I start her up - and yup, fires right up! I managed to keep her running by manual adjusting the throttle on the carbs, and she sounds great, nice and smooth. rev's up fine, no hesitation at all. BUT, when I bring the throttle back down (keep in mind, up front the throttle is at fast idle, with the throttle stick up front is pushed all the way foward) the motor will idle like it should if there was no throttle forward for just a bit, but the it dies.

Stick something back in on the carbs to keep the throttle open, turn the key, starts up in seconds!

I really don't know what to do. I did take the carbs off, removed the bulb cover, and sprayed the heck out of every nook & cranny with carb cleaner. The needles seem to be fine, nothing is stuck open or shut, they move as the float moves.

I also checked the TDC timing mark following the guide in Clymers - and it is dead on where it should be. Not sure if that info helps solve this mystery.

I'm not sure what to do now...

 

[vprgtsr001]

Re: 1989 FORCE 85 - will not start!!!

I'm having a similar problem with mine, i figured i'd try to find some help before making my own post. Engine overheated randomly one day then stalled out. Hasnt started since. Doing exactly this, kind of sputters then dies. If i hold the throttle open and have someone crank it, it fires right up. If i hold it above idle it runs and sounds great, if i let it back down even close to idle it sounds like it bogs hardcore then dies.

 

[gatormeat]

Re: 1989 FORCE 85 - will not start!!!

when you pump the fuel ball is it firm and does it stay firm?

 

[vprgtsr001]

Re: 1989 FORCE 85 - will not start!!!

i know mine does, tested everything at least 2 times. Its a mystery.