1991 Johnson 200hp Air Silencer help needed...

fish2day

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I have a 1991 Johnson 200hp that would not run above 2000-2500 rpms. I checked everything while in the water including firing etc...... While trying to find the problem I removed the Air Silencer from the carbs and decided to try it with the Silencer off. It took off and ran full speed @ 5500rpms. If I put the Silencer back on it bogs and will not go above 2000-2500rpms. I then removed the Silencer Gasket and put the Silencer on without the gasket and it opened up and ran.
Could anyone tell me why it will not run full throttle with the Silencer Gasket on??? It appears to be restricting the fuel flow. Any help appreciated. Also it did set up without use for a year.:confused:
 

Joe Reeves

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Re: 1991 Johnson 200hp Air Silencer help needed...

The carburetor face plate gasket (thick hard foam gasket) is indeed a air restricting device designed to have the engine run properly with it installed.

Normally, with that gasket removed, the engine will run properly for a short time, then suddenly drop rpms and die out.

Did this engine ever run properly with the gasket installed, and if so, have you or anyone changed the carburetors... or changed the original carburetors jets?
 

fish2day

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Re: 1991 Johnson 200hp Air Silencer help needed...

I purchased the boat like this. Yes it is the hard thick foam gasket. I removed the carbs and blew them out with a air compressor but it didn't change anything. I'm stumped on where to start to correct the problem. The carbs appear to be the ones that came on the engine. Any help appreciated.
 

fish2day

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Re: 1991 Johnson 200hp Air Silencer help needed...

Also, I'm getting less than 1/2 mile to a gallon, it uses extreme amounts of fuel running half throttle or full throttle.
 

daselbee

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Re: 1991 Johnson 200hp Air Silencer help needed...

Somebody removed the HS jets completely. (guess)
 

fish2day

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Re: 1991 Johnson 200hp Air Silencer help needed...

The jets are in the carbs, I had them apart. Any other ideas appreciated.
 

daselbee

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Re: 1991 Johnson 200hp Air Silencer help needed...

Just for grins, describe where the HS jets are.
 

Faztbullet

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Re: 1991 Johnson 200hp Air Silencer help needed...

I have see the foam gasket swell and when installed cover the idle and intermediate jets...
 

daselbee

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Re: 1991 Johnson 200hp Air Silencer help needed...

and if so, have you or anyone changed the carburetors... or changed the original carburetors jets?

Joe is on to something. There are different HS jets based on the model number.
One model uses 54Ds, the other model uses 62Ds. Significant difference.
 

fish2day

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Re: 1991 Johnson 200hp Air Silencer help needed...

Everyone is thinking the problem is in the carbs??? This will at least give me a starting point. If the gasket is swelling and covering the idle and intermediate jets would that cause the problem? The HS Jets were located inside the carb after I removed the bowl, if I remember correctly, correct me if I'm wrong. I have experience with auto and motorcycle, but not boats. Help.....
 

boobie

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Re: 1991 Johnson 200hp Air Silencer help needed...

I've seen those jets "wear out" and get bigger with age. (just like people) LOL. That mtr was designed to run with the air box on due to the high speed jetting in the carbs. Somebody may have changed them. Go to shop.evinrude.com look up the jets and get them. That would be a good starting point for your prob.
 

daselbee

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Re: 1991 Johnson 200hp Air Silencer help needed...

Everyone is thinking the problem is in the carbs???

Well, it sounds very very rich. Spark must be good, cause you run OK with the cover off. It is just way rich for some reason.

And I suppose it is possible that the idle and mid jets being covered could richen it up alot, but then it would not idle right....

Remove the bowl drain screw, and pull a HS jet. Examine the number on it and compare to what is called for on your model number.
I doubt you will gain anything from that exercise, cause someone could have changed the whole carb set out....
It is going to be tricky, because those idle and mid air bleeds are different on different models. You can't really look at the carb and say that it has the wrong mids in it for example. The black carb bodies look the same. There are differences in the side plate....

It was just an ongoing engineering effort thru the early nineties to come up with a carb that worked well....

But it will get you started.
 

j_k_bisson

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Re: 1991 Johnson 200hp Air Silencer help needed...

Hey guys, he is using a ton of gas. So either a ton of vacuum or something is dumping a ton of fuel.

So on the Vacuum front - By chance do you have any foam stuck in the baffle on the cover. Anything blocking the air intakes on the cover? Or like they said above, anything blocking the jets. You mention that it does idle.

On the fuel side - Also is the fuel pump working fine? Or better yet is the primer circuit open or stuck open with the choke? Is the lever pointing in the right direction? This dumps lots of fuel directly into the intake past the carbs...... Even half open?

These all would dump a ton of fuel in the motor.
 

Joe Reeves

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Re: 1991 Johnson 200hp Air Silencer help needed...

Everyone is thinking the problem is in the carbs??? This will at least give me a starting point. If the gasket is swelling and covering the idle and intermediate jets would that cause the problem? The HS Jets were located inside the carb after I removed the bowl, if I remember correctly, correct me if I'm wrong.

A item that hasn't been mentioned, mostly due to the fact that if this condition existed, it would result in the fuel pump/VRO malfunctioning, but check it anyway. Find the pressure hose that leads from the fuel pump to the crankcase (block) and temporarily disconnect it. Now, pump the fuel primer bulb while observing that hose. If fuel flows out of it when the primer bulb has been pumped up hard, the pump diaphragm is faulty... rebuild or replace the pump.

It would be an excellent idea, in my opinion, to question the previous owner to see if (to his knowledge) those carburetors have been changed, jets changed, whatever. Having worked on those engines in a serious manner for over 30 some years, your explanation of the problem leads me right into the carburetor area. Unfortunately some boaters think they are somewhat wiser than the engineers that design these engines... and decide to improve them with complete carburetors that have wider throats, physically modify the carburetors, or simply install bigger jets.... all of which simply create problems.

The carburetor throat mention..... you would need to know the original specifications of the designed carburetor in order to compare. Some other member will need to forward that information.

Let us know the numbers imprinted on the jets.... High, Idle, and Intermediate jets.

The mention of the gasket swelling..... If that hard heavy duty gasket has swelled, although I assume it's possible but it's something I have never encountered.

However..... The design of that gasket is such that there is a cut out for each individual carburetor throat. If anyone has decided to make their own gasket and replaced that gasket with some other look alike gasket material..... and neglected to cut out the precise openings to allow air to enter the carburetor throats, that effectively creates a choking effect upon the carburetors. Unlikely this condition exists but it's a thought.

If you're close friends with anyone that has the identical engine, or are friendly with a dealership or other outboard repair shop mechanic who might have the identical engine in thier shop, ask if he will compare one of its carburetors with yours (casting numbers, throat diameter, jets, etc). I can think of no other reason for your problem UNLESS you have a electric fuel pump inline forcing fuel past the carburetor float needle valves.
 

daselbee

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Re: 1991 Johnson 200hp Air Silencer help needed...

I do not see any mention of the quaility of idle, and throttle up, until the trouble rpm is reached. Then it bogs.
Since he didn't mention that the idle was bad, I am assuming it is OK.
Primer solenoid turned to manual, or one that is leaking would affect the idle. In fact, it would not idle at all, if it was dumping that much gas through.

So, when he hits 2000-2500 or so, when the mains normally start drawing heavily, he is pulling way too much fuel. He removes that old style slightly restrictive silencer, allows more air, and the mixture gets leaner, and results in a better running motor.

He is sucking way too much gas at the higher rpms. I bet he is leaving a huge oil slick, and fuel film all over the water.
 

fish2day

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Re: 1991 Johnson 200hp Air Silencer help needed...

Thanks for being so detailed. The gasket is the orignal for the silencer. The choke is not the problem because it is cold natured and hard to start. Once it runs for a minute or two, it starts as soon as you touch the key. It idles good in or out of the water. The previous owner said these are the original carbs, but the jets have been cleaned several times due to it setting up not being used. So, the HS jets could be larger due to being cleaned. I will check the fuel pump by your instructions but I feel like it is ok. I think that your indication to the Carbs being the problem is probably accurate. The boat had been setting for 1 1/2 years when I purchased it. If the HS Jets were cleaned using a knife or other sharp objects, the damage to the jets would cause this, do you think?
It also seems to run stronger at times, like the fuel flow is changing during the run. It opened up a couple of times and reached almost 6000rpms then after I stopped and restarted it didn't seem as strong. Any advice appreciated.
 

archcycle

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Re: 1991 Johnson 200hp Air Silencer help needed...

I once had a situation with my silencer where some hoses would crimp a little when the silencer was tightened down because of poor hose routing. Seems unlikely with yours being fine with no baffle seal but keep it in mind next time you're on the water.
 

Joe Reeves

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Re: 1991 Johnson 200hp Air Silencer help needed...

There are five (5) different models of the 200hp in 1991. Which one do you have.... Model number?
 

fish2day

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Re: 1991 Johnson 200hp Air Silencer help needed...

My Model # is J200TXE1
 

daselbee

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Re: 1991 Johnson 200hp Air Silencer help needed...

My Model # is J200TXE1

OK...now we have something to work with. That is TXE "I" for future reference, which is indeed a 1991.

The main jets should be 54Ds. Have you pulled one yet to even verify if it is there, as well as the numbers on it?

If they are not 54Ds, then someone has monkeyed with the stock carb setup.
 
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