1993 175 Fast Strike power tilt

cityjack

Seaman
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May 31, 2013
Messages
70
Morning all,

After searching for a bit before posting, I really could not find my exact motor or model with the similiar problem.

I bought some new lower unit oil last night and wanted to put it in. The boat sits outside but is covered and wso is the motor. We have had an enormous amount of reain here in the last few weeks. I went to lower or tilt the engine down but before that I had to raise it to get it off the support bracket. Turned the key on and tilted it up no problem. raised the support bracket and the tilted it down to where I wanted it no problem. Drained the oil, put the plugs back in and then went to raise the motor back again so I could put it back on the bracket. When I pushed the tilt trim button on the throttle, not a sound from the tilt motor or movement of any kind from the motor. I turned everything back off and went to the back to look around, everything loooked good and no leaks at all. Me being new and just getting this motor, I figured maybe the fluid was low. But I had to loosen the mecahnical valve so I could manually lift the motor to get to the reservoir cap. Once the motor was raised enough, I tightened the valve back up and rested the motor on the support bracket. When I took the reservoir cap off a bunch of fluid came out. I thought d**n. Well there was enough fluid I guess but now I have to replace the fluid I just wasted on the ground. I looked at the service manual and it says 21 fl oz and full is right to the bottom of the reservoir cap. So I am thinking if full is to the bottom of the cap and the inlet and cap to the reservoir sits sideways, when no more fluid runs out, that is full then. So why would fluid come running out or maybe it was just a tad over full. So I put the cap back on. The troubleshooting section of the trim/tilt says wen you push the tilt switch and you hear no running tilt motor or it humming then go to the power-supply section to troubleshoot.
Once there, I turn the key off and remove it and the safety switch. Connect the batteries like the book says. In this order by the book. Check for 12 volts at the starter solenoid. Good. Remove both relays. Check for 12 volts or positive battery voltage at V1 of the relay block while being across to V2 with the negative lead of the ohm meter. Nothing. Something confusing is the way the relay block is oriented in the power-supply section showing you V1(positive battery voltage) and the wat it is shown or oriented in the back on the electrical schematic. I am not sure if I am checking the correct lead or not. Nevertheless, if no voltage is present, assuming I was on the correct pin, I am to check the connections or RED wire between the relay block and the starter solenoid. This tells me V1 has got a red wire connected to it. If the red wire checks good then I am to check the black wire from the back of the relay block to engine ground. Is there only 1 red and 1 black wire to the back of the relay block? I do not have another person with me to push the trim switch and listen for clicking relays. All I know for sure was the tilt motor, was not even hinting at making any sounds at all. What I have read here is these relays are a common problem. When I bought the boat a few weeks ago and we put it in the water for a test ride, when the previous owner went to lower the motor into the water at the dock, he had to tap on the motor housing with an adjustable wrench slightly to get it moving. After those few slight taps, the tilt never had a problem again and once I received it, its been fine since. Its just been since its been sitting for a few weeks until last night it did this.

Any ideas at all would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you all and have a nice day.

Sid
 
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
2,598
Re: 1993 175 Fast Strike power tilt

Which manual are you using, the OMC factory service manual or one of the generic aftermarket ones?

Also, if I'm reading right, you can't get anything to happen from the trim switch at the control box but what about the trim switch on the engine?
 

cityjack

Seaman
Joined
May 31, 2013
Messages
70
Re: 1993 175 Fast Strike power tilt

Thank you sir for responding. I have the Johnson Evinrude OEM service manual from Ken Cook and the OEM owners manual. I never really liked the aftermarket books on an OMC inboard outboard I had years ago. I bit the bullet and bought OEM this time. My apologies for not being more clear. You are reading correct sir. Nothing at all from the control box and nothing at all from the tilt switch on the motor. Not even a hint of a noise from the tilt motor. Like I said I do not have the help of another to listen for relay clicks from in the boat up front, but I never really did listen for the relays when using the motor switch. I was really not sure if that switch on the motor was to behave identical to the one on the control box. I know the switch on the control box only operates when the key switch is on. What about the motor mounted one? thank you very much sir for replying and for any help you can give.

Sid
 
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
2,598
Re: 1993 175 Fast Strike power tilt

OK, I had to read your original post about 5 times to understand what you were doing (I have trouble understanding more than 3 sentences at once :D ).

First off, don't worry about the orientation of anything on the wiring diagram, it just shows what wires go to what components (not my favorite type of diagram, but it is what it is).

Also, have you checked the fuse in the engine? It's a 20 amp fuse (if I remember right), in a black rubber fuse holder near the solenoid.

Now, as for that diagram number 1 in the "Power Supply Troubleshooting" section. Do this with the relays removed.... put your negative voltmeter lead on a good engine ground and check the voltage on leads V1 and V5. Both should show +12 volts all the time.

Put your meter on the ohms scale and check the resistance between terminals V2 and a good engine ground, and then check the resistance between V6 and a good engine ground. Both readings should be nearly zero.

Put your meter back on DC volts, put the negative lead on a good engine ground and the positive lead on terminal V3. Push the up-trim button. You should see 12 volts when the button is pressed.

Now move your positive test lead on V7 and press the trim-down button. You should see 12 volts when the button is pressed.

Let me know what you get after those checks.
 

cityjack

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Messages
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Re: 1993 175 Fast Strike power tilt

Just got in from the boat and did not see your instructions in time so I went out an started over. Good battery voltage at the solenoid. Removed the relays and now I have battery voltage at V1 where last night I did not. No clue what went on there. Real quick I threw the relays back in. Both on the control box tilt switch and the motor mounted trim switch up and down on both switches gets my relays clicking now. Last night I did not have that either. the motor still did not move up or down and not a sound from the tilt motor. back to the book. Removed the relays and put the black meter lead on engine ground and the red lead on V3. Pressed the control box tilt switch up and no voltage on V3. Same results for the engine mounted trim switch when I hit up. No voltage at V3. I have battery voltage going into the motor mounted switch and when I hit the switch I get battery voltage on the other side as well. The motor mounted switch is passing voltage through. Here is where I got stuck and the sun set on me. The book wanted me to disconnect two blue and white wire bullet connectors going to the tilt limit switch. By time I found the switch it was too dark. I could only find one bullet connector and that was the one that was connected to the dark blue wire coming out of the motor mounted switch right at the switch. The other two which I am thinking the book wants me to disconnect and connect to eachother are I think buried in the harness somewhere. It looks like the tilt limit switch has only one screw holding it down and has two long leads going up into the motor. Could not find the bullet connectors and thats where I stopped. If that tilt limit switch were bad, would it stop my tilt motor from running do you think?
When I get in from work tomorrow night I will try everything you are saying here to do unless knowing now that I have voltage at V1 and my relays are clicking that maybe you want me to change my strategy up some. If not, and I do not see anything from you by time I get home tomorrow, I will assume you want me to still proceed as you have instructed here.

Thank you sir and I'll let you know what I get.

Thank

Sid
 

MaPaHa

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jul 6, 2012
Messages
239
Re: 1993 175 Fast Strike power tilt

I've got a 1996 175 Fast Strike and have had trouble two times with the trim. 1st time was the first time out brand new in 1996. Both times it was the trim relays on the top front of the motor. Try swapping them and see if it works in either direction. I didn't notice if you said it worked the other way or not.

In both cases with me, it would work one way but not the other. I keep an extra relay in the glove box since it was new. Have had to swap relays around to get it up or down then swap back.
 

cityjack

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May 31, 2013
Messages
70
Re: 1993 175 Fast Strike power tilt

No sir. No movement in either direction. I have voltage at the relays they are making clicking noises when I operate either of the trim/tilt switches. But not a noise out of the tilt motor. Is there a place online where I can access a service manual for a 1993 175 Fast Strike? I am the3 OEM manual at home but I need to look at something while I'm at work.

Thanks

Sid
 
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
2,598
Re: 1993 175 Fast Strike power tilt

If that tilt limit switch were bad, would it stop my tilt motor from running do you think?........
When I get in from work tomorrow night I will try everything you are saying here to do unless knowing now that I have voltage at V1 and my relays are clicking that maybe you want me to change my strategy up some. If not, and I do not see anything from you by time I get home tomorrow, I will assume you want me to still proceed as you have instructed here.


I design and repair industrial control systems, so troubleshooting relays etc. is second nature to me. I'm just having you walk through each part of the system a few steps at a time so that you don't end up buying parts you don't need.

As far as that tilt limit switch, yes, if that were bad it could definitely cause the problems you're seeing, but don't run out and buy one just yet. To be honest I wonder if that switch is even needed, lots of other engines are perfectly happy without one.
 

cityjack

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Joined
May 31, 2013
Messages
70
Re: 1993 175 Fast Strike power tilt

Good morning,

After reading another post, someone had somebody else troubleshoot the limit switch by bypassing it by just connecting the two blue/white wire bullet connectors together. Like I was trying to do last night but could not find them. This person said that once bypassed and your motor then goes up, the switch is at fault. But if you have no issue with your motor hitting anything at full up then you can leave it bypassed and do not need it. I was thinking, that maybe I do have down but just cannot tell right now. The motor did go all the way down the other night. Just not back up. It is all the way down as far as the trim pistons go already. The motor I just manually lifted back up and it is now resting on the support bracket. I need to check what you told me to when I get home.

Thanks.

Sid
 

cityjack

Seaman
Joined
May 31, 2013
Messages
70
Re: 1993 175 Fast Strike power tilt

Just to be clear sir unless you know already, the exact model of my motor is J175GLETG. My diagram #1 in the OEM service manual shows only V1 through V6. You ANd the book talks about a V& but there is none shown and I do not know where it is. Anyway the checks you asked me to do I just completed.

Ok relays removed negative meter lead on a good engine ground(right to the head), and the red meter lead to V1 and then V5. At V1 I get good battery voltage (12.6). At V5 I get nothing.

Checking for continuity between the same engine ground and V2. I get open circuit. No connection. Checking between same engine ground again and V6 this time. I get open circuit again. No connection.

Negative meter lead on engine ground and positive lead on V3. Pushing either the control box mounted tilt switch or the engine mounted tilt switch up, I get no voltage at all with either switch. Negative meter lead still on the engine ground and positive meter lead suppose to be V7, but I do not know where that is because it is not labelled in the book. Thats is so terrible for the book to tel you in their troubleshooting sequence to test at a certain point but do not show you where that point is. It makes you wonder of the Tech writers responsible for putting the manual together ever reads their own work. Anyway sir, I cannot give you a reading for V7.

I did however find those two blue/white colored limit switch wires with the bullet connectors on them. They were nestled between the 2 banks of carbs. I had to pull that air box cowl off the front of the carbs a bit to get to them. I disconnected them and then connected the two connectors together thereby bypassing the limit switch. Put the relays in. Turned the key on. Hit the switch for tilt. Nothing. With the limit switch still not connected and leads for it still left open, I did a continuity check across the switch. When the plunger for the switch is in the out position I have continuity. When I depressed the plunger back into the switch, I immediately read no connection or open circuit. That limit switch is good sir.

Now what? I am assuming with the continuity check you had me do, engine ground to V2 and V6 and got no continuity on both, we were checking ground to the relays and by my readings we have none. Am I right here? No ground to the relay block, no voltage will pass thru the relay. I am going to check the continuity between V2 and V6 right to the side of the solenoid. The schematic in the back shows one ground wire coming from the relay block, that must be split up behind the block to a couple different terminals. But leaving the relay block it is only one ground wire and it goes through a plug then right to the solenoid or starter body. I'll be right back and let you know what I find.

Sid
 

cityjack

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May 31, 2013
Messages
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Re: 1993 175 Fast Strike power tilt

Well after spending a couple hours out at the motor and going through your check sequence I tried going back also through what the service manual says to do. First thing is the V1 - V6 business and how the book describes what connection is what "V#" is not accurate to what connector on the relay block is what. A couple pages over from the trouble shooting part for the power supply is a page that tells you how to check the relays. There also they tell you what each blade on the relay does and what the corresponding wire color is. This is what I went by for the checking this time.
In the service manual section for the power supply there are 11 steps numbered for the UP circuit and 12 - 20 for the down. I was able to get successfully through every step with the voltage or resistance I was suppose to. When I got to the step where they have me put the Up side relay back in half way so I can still access the blades to measure with the meter, thats where it fell apart. I pushed the relay half way in on the UP side. Connected the negative meter lead to engine ground and red lead on the "MOTOR" wire(solid blue 16gauge). Push the UP tilit switch and I get voltage. If I get voltage, which I did, I then was suppose to disconnect the tilt motor connector and I did while relay on UP side still half way pressed in. Still on engine ground and motor blue wire connection under the relay. Pressed the tilt switch up. I got battery voltage again. The book then tells me I need to check either the tilt/trim motor or the leads of the motor. I then put one lead in one end of the motor connector, blue wire, and then pierced the blue wire right next to the motor case where the wire enters the motor. I have good continuity. I guess something is up with my motor. Something I forgot to tell you, was when I bough the boat a couple of weeks ago and took it for a test ride, at the dock the original owner had to tap on the side of the tilt motor with a wrench to get the motor to lower into the water. He told me at that time because the boat had been sitting for awhile that the motor usually sticks and after some use it'll be ok. Well it was for the whole test ride. :) Now the motor does not work and no tapping on the side will help it anymore. Maybe it has used up all of its taps.

Motor questions;

1. How hard is it to remove the tilt motor? Anything special I need to pay attention to? I see there is an o-ring and a coupling in the exploded view in the parts book also.
2. Can I take this little motor to a rebuild shop in town and will they be able to handle it? I see on ebay and Amazon there is a new one for like 60-70 bucks. I don't think they come with the o-ring or the couple either. I also see another brand Sierra. It is like 150-170 bucks and comes with the 2 extra parts. I am assuming the price difference is "you get what you pay for". But if I can get mine rebuilt for say 50 to 75 bucks maybe I should do that provided it is OEM and not the Amazon 70 motor in there already.


What are your thoughts sir?

Thanks

Sid
 
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
2,598
Re: 1993 175 Fast Strike power tilt

You're right, the diagram in the OMC manual is wrong, I hadn't noticed that before. I'm glad you were able to figure out what to check based on the text in the manual.

Yes, it sounds like you might need a new tilt motor. The motor itself isn't too difficult to remove from the tilt/trim unit, but you need to take the tilt/trim unit off the engine first (and that's the hard part). The hangup is always getting the upper pin out, chances are if you don't yet cuss you will after trying to remove that upper pin. I replaced the trim motor on my last engine and was able to get that pin out 'somewhat' easily, but it still took a lot of brute force beating on it with a punch and big hammer and being careful not to mushroom the pin. From the sounds of it I had a much easier time of it than most others, many people end up using a torch to break it free. AND THEN, after getting that pin out you have to jockey the tilt unit around into just the exact right position to get it to slide out.

I used one of those trim motors from ebay and it worked fine.

Also, you can reuse the coupling but I'd get a new o-ring. You should be able to order that online or else get it from a local OMC dealer.
 

cityjack

Seaman
Joined
May 31, 2013
Messages
70
Re: 1993 175 Fast Strike power tilt

Ok. I am trying to remove the tilt cylinder assembly. I got as far as removing the air cleaner on the carb banks and have to pull the 2 pins out of the tilt motor connector the book says. How in the heck do you get them pins out? It says to either use a flat blade screw driver from the back of the connector or a suitable tool from the front of the connector to depress THE tab. What tab are they talking about? Is it a tab that is part of the connector housing or is it a part of the terminal that is inserted into the housing? This tab I am suppose to depress, is it in the center of the connector or to the outside of the connector? I haven't even got to this terribly awful "top pin" that everyone has so much trouble with because this little connector is kicking my butt.

Any help please.

Thanks

Sid
 

boobie

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
Messages
20,826
Re: 1993 175 Fast Strike power tilt

After reading through these posts and the PO had to tap the t/t mtr to get it to work, it's sounds like a stuck brush in the mtr or a bad mtr. That was the first good clue.
 

cityjack

Seaman
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May 31, 2013
Messages
70
Re: 1993 175 Fast Strike power tilt

Would you by any chance be able to tell me how to separate the pins out of the tilt motor connector? I am following the instructions in the service manual and that is like the 2nd step on my way to removing the tilt assembly. I guess if I am going to just get another motor I could just cut the plug off the end of the 2 wires and fish the wires back thru the bottom of the motor cover towards the tilt assembly. I guess the book is telling me to separate the pins from the plug for ease of getting thru the grommet under the motor and thinking I will be using the same motor upon putting the tilt assembly back in. I see new motors do not come with the connector housing. Just the pins on the ends of the wires. What do you think?

Sid
 

boobie

Supreme Mariner
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Nov 5, 2009
Messages
20,826
Re: 1993 175 Fast Strike power tilt

Sometimes a small pick works on those connectors. The trick is to release the metal tab on the the terminal connector on the wire itself or a plastic tab where the wire goes.
 

cityjack

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Joined
May 31, 2013
Messages
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Re: 1993 175 Fast Strike power tilt

Morning all,

Well sometimes things just go your way I guess. When I went to disassemble the trim assembly to get it out so I could replace my bad trim/tilt motor, the "tilt motor gods" smiled upon me. I just removed the ground wire to the tilt motor from the tilt motor. Cut the motor leads and when I removed the snap rings from the top and bottom pins both pins moved. I slid them both out with my fingers and then removed the tilt/trim assembly very easily. All of about 20 minutes. The hardest part was kneeling on my driveway. I went out and bought a small sledge, and a new brass punch just for those pins in anticipation of having to heat and drive them out.

NOW, I see a tilt motor that is a replacement on ebay for like 70 bucks vs. the 200 dollar OEM one. A previous gentleman moderator said no problem with that. Where is the quickest and cheapest place to get the OEM o-ring, drive coupler, and maybe the electrical plug that the motor leads need to seat into please?

Thanks for all of your help.

Sid
 

cityjack

Seaman
Joined
May 31, 2013
Messages
70
Re: 1993 175 Fast Strike power tilt

Afternoon all and Happy 4TH,

I just received my trim/tilt motor today with o-ring and coupler. I will be putting the motor back onto the trim assembly and then the trim assembly back onto the motor. My question is, I see in the service manual where they talk about putting the fluid back into the trim fluid reservoir and then cycling the motor up and down like 5 times to purge or bleed any air out. I want to know can I use any other fluid in this trim reservoir other than a fluid that is OMC? Can I use a power steering fluid or tranny fluis and if so what type? All boat shops are closed today but plenty of auto part stores and Wally world of course are open. Also, Can I fill the resrevoir while I have it off the motor and just cycle the tilt rod up and down to bleed it that way before I put it on the boat? I am sure I'll have to move it up and down once installed but I want to do as much as possible before I put the tilt assembly back onto the boat motor. Anything special I need to do to the coupler or o-ring before assembly also?

Thanks guys and have a safe a good holiday.

Sid
 
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