1995 Johnson 200 won't start without fully charged battery

[wmconway]

Hi guys, i appreciate all the good info on this forum and any help you can give me.
I bought this motor used to push a Sea Ox 23c and it runs really good except for this nasty problem i'm having with cold starting it.

If i let the boat sit for a few days, i have to charge the battery up to a full 12.6V or it has no fire. When it has been running, it'll start right up and run fine. The charging system puts out about 13.3V at idle and 13.8 at 4000 RPM. When i turn on the ignition, the tach zeros. When i crank the motor the tach climbs up to 7000 RPM in about 3 seconds. When the motor is running, the tach generally reads about 4000 RPM but jumps to 5500 then back to 4000 about every 10 seconds. The starter seems to be turning the engine over pretty fast. My brother has a 150 Johnson and his starting RPM sounds like mine.

Reading on the forum i found out about the leaking stator problem and mine was was leaking black resin out of all 3 power/charge coils plus there was some kind of reddish goo leaking out too. That encouraged me to replace the stator. That flywheel was a bugger to get off - again thanks for the good gouge. Every stator magnet on the flywheel was loose and one was broke. They had all migrated together. Replacing the stator and fixing the flywheel magnets didn't solve my problem.

This was the old stator.



Next, I took the plugs out and checked for fire. Sure enough it had fire on all but 1 cylinder. Some of the threads say that the RPM issue could be a weak timer base while others say the tachometer symptoms indicate a bad rectifier/regulator.

Does this sound familiar to anyone?

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: 1995 Johnson 200 won't start without fully charged battery

You don't actually say that you have had the battery loadtested, but if you haven't, that's where I would start.
Classic symptoms of a battery that will not hold a charge.
The 2nd thing I would do...but it wouldn't hurt to do it first...would be to connect an in-line ammeter between the positive battery terminal and the disconnected positive cable.
Turn off everything that you can and see if there is a still a drain on the battery.

If there is you have to find out what it is and eliminate it.

My money is on the battery failing.

 

[steelespike]

Re: 1995 Johnson 200 won't start without fully charged battery

Actually a healthy 12volt battery fresh off a full charge will be 13 + volts and may settle back to slightly under 13.

 

[jhebert]

Re: 1995 Johnson 200 won't start without fully charged battery

Erratic readings on a tachometer are often a symptom of a rectifier or rectifier-regulator assembly going bad.

 

[j_k_bisson]

Re: 1995 Johnson 200 won't start without fully charged battery

Agree with the batery load test. As a rule of thumb on my boats. New battery for the starting batery every two year, reguardless of the condition. DOn't want to try to rope start these motors in the middle of a lake. I have had a battery go fo not apparent reason.

Also if you are having tach issues. The replace your rectifier quick. If you do not, you will be replacing that expensive stator you just replaced. One basically goes with the other.

I would check the cylinder that is not firing by swapping the coild from one cyclinder to the other. This will check if its the power pack or the coil it self. Then go from there. Have you spark load tested the motor with a spark gap checker? This little unit will tell you if you have a weak ingition system. You can buy them from ebay or here I think.

IJMHO

 

[wmconway]

Re: 1995 Johnson 200 won't start without fully charged battery

I forgot to mention that i have 2 batteries, both brand new. They are hooked up with a make-before-break battery switch, and i have tried starting with BOTH batteries. While starting the voltage drops to 12.47/48. The engine will start like this. After waiting a week, the battery voltages are both about 12.5 and while attempting to start, they drop to 12.38. While turning it over with the plugs out, the voltages are about 12.42/43 and the coils fire. Using the voltage bleed down over time i turned the engine over every day while taking voltage readings and the threshold where the coils cease firing is right at 12.40 V. I am using a spark tester with 7/16" gap.

I checked the coil that wasn't firing (bottom STBD - #5 cyl) by pulling it's pulse cord and plugging it into the coil above it (middle STBD - #3 cyl) and it wasn't firing the coil. The #3 pulse cord wouldn't reach the #5 coil so just to be sure i switched the coils and the #5 coil which was originally on #3 still wouldn't fire.

 

[Faztbullet]

Re: 1995 Johnson 200 won't start without fully charged battery

That motor need to turn a min of 300rpm for ignition to light off, check battery as suggested,battery cables for bad/loose connections, check for high resistance in cables,and check starter. The tach issues sounds like bad rectifier/regulator and thats what would have melted stator. Check spark with plugs installed and dont worry about 1 spark missing untill starting problem is fixed, and will bet it fixes self after starting issue is addressed.

 

[daselbee]

Re: 1995 Johnson 200 won't start without fully charged battery

You are just way way off track here. The miniscule voltage changes you are describing can not and will not affect the starting of the motor.
Look for something else, and quit being so nitpicky about twenty or thirty millivolts.

OK, now that said, I will suggest that you check carefully the cranking speed of the engine. Must be 250 to 300 rpms, or the pack won't fire.

I must point out that the voltages required to fire a plug using the igniton system as designed are NOT supplied by the battery, they are generated by the stator flywheel combination as the flywheel turns.

In fact, if you could pull a rope hard enough, the engine would start and run without a battery at all.

Thge only thing the battery does is turn the starter.

 

[Faztbullet]

Re: 1995 Johnson 200 won't start without fully charged battery

I have replaced several starters for this exact reason, they sound ok but still low on rpm and its hard to tell with a gear drive starter. Here is link to a new starter for $70!!!!

http://www.amazon.com/Starter-OMC-E...E2MGYDTPEYH7&s=generic&qid=1294544445&sr=1-42

 

[wmconway]

Re: 1995 Johnson 200 won't start without fully charged battery

Hey guys thanks for the advice. I checked the voltage drop across the positive and negative battery cables as described in "CDI Electronics Practical Outboard Ignition Troubleshooting". The Positive cable had 0.23v and the negative was 0. These are within the 0.60v spec.

 

[seahorse5]

Re: 1995 Johnson 200 won't start without fully charged battery

Your description sounds like a voltage problem not allowing the motor to crank over fast enough. Like was already mentioned, the starter itself may be one of the culprits.

While the engine is cranking over, measure the voltage at the starter terminal. It should be around 10 volts. If it is less, then there is a voltage delivery problem with either cables, connections, or battery condition. If much above 10 volts, then the starter is not drawing enough juice to crank over fast enough.

Your tach description points to the regulator not charging correctly. Also make sure that the battery cables are fastened with lockwashers and hex nuts - NOT WING NUTS.

Also make sure that you are starting the motor correctly - there is a lot of mis-information floating around about that style motor.

lower motor to full trim in - make sure idle relief ports are above water (bassboats)
hold primer ball with the arrow facing up and squeeze until rock hard
make sure throttle is at idle and turn key to ON and push in and hold for a count of 5
continue holding key in and turn to START position - motor should start within 6 seconds if it good shape
Once motor starts you may have to push the key in (tickle it) once or twice if the motor starts to slow down until it warms up a bit.
the motor has a fast idle built it when first started then slows to normal idle as it warms up - if not, then troubleshoot the ingition system

 

[wmconway]

Re: 1995 Johnson 200 won't start without fully charged battery

I checked the blowoff valve this morning and sure enough it had seaweed or something clogging it. So, from what i read, the clogged valve caused an air pocket to form which in turn caused the regulator to overheat which ultimately melted the stator. Did Rube Goldberg design this motor?

Found this piece of gasket blocking the inlet to the blowoff valve.

 

[daselbee]

Re: 1995 Johnson 200 won't start without fully charged battery

I checked the blowoff valve this morning and sure enough it had seaweed or something clogging it. So, from what i read, the clogged valve caused an air pocket to form which in turn caused the regulator to overheat which ultimately melted the stator. Did Rube Goldberg design this motor?

Man, I am glad you are not diagnosing anything of mine. You keep looking at individual items, and drawing the absolute wrong conclusions.

Sounds like Rube is doing the diagnosis.

 

[wmconway]

Re: 1995 Johnson 200 won't start without fully charged battery

The starter terminal voltage check shows 9.03V. I also disconnected the yellow (stator to rectifier/regulator) wires and checked the fire again. It was intermittant and weak on all but #3 - which had no fire.

 

[Solittle]

Re: 1995 Johnson 200 won't start without fully charged battery

My bet goes to corrosion in the cables and or connections. Clean/replace. Be sure to check the cables themselves in addition to the connections. Corrosion (the green crap) can/will eat the copper cable on the inside.

 

[knehdn]

Re: 1995 Johnson 200 won't start without fully charged battery

For the hell of it, pull the starter and open it up. Once it's out of the motor, just the two bottom bolts to undo and the lower cover will come off and you can see the windings at the base of the armature where contact is made with the brushes. I was having the same sort of problem, but the voltage dropped like a rock. Did the same with a new battery, then once I opened up the starter, I found one of the windings on the armature had broken. Apparently one of the brushes broke, and a dislodged piece did the damage to the winding. Once I replaced the starter, all was OK again. And I returned the battery to help cover the cost of the starter.
Just a thought.

 

[wmconway]

Re: 1995 Johnson 200 won't start without fully charged battery

Hey thanks a ton guys. I got battery cables and a regulator/rectifier on the way. Even though the old cables are "within spec", there is a strange bulge in the positive cable about 4 inches down from the solenoid.

 

[kenmyfam]

Re: 1995 Johnson 200 won't start without fully charged battery

My bet goes to corrosion in the cables and or connections. Clean/replace. Be sure to check the cables themselves in addition to the connections. Corrosion (the green crap) can/will eat the copper cable on the inside.

I'm on this page as well.

 

[texasabil]

Re: 1995 Johnson 200 won't start without fully charged battery

I had a 1978 200 hp evinrude it cranked like it had a low battery. I took bought new battery cleaned all connections and i still had to jump it to get it to start. well took the starter to a local rebuild place it had a bad armature. well replaced the starter and never had another problem with it!!!

 

[wmconway]

Re: 1995 Johnson 200 won't start without fully charged battery

Your description sounds like a voltage problem not allowing the motor to crank over fast enough. Like was already mentioned, the starter itself may be one of the culprits.

While the engine is cranking over, measure the voltage at the starter terminal. It should be around 10 volts. If it is less, then there is a voltage delivery problem with either cables, connections, or battery condition. If much above 10 volts, then the starter is not drawing enough juice to crank over fast enough.

So if the voltage is much above 10, is that a bad starter?