1st Boat purchase

[mavryk]

Hello everyone. I am sure I am not the first, probably more like the millionth person to pose this question. I am looking to purchase my first powerboat, something 18-19ft, bowrider, I/O, in the $5000 price range. I would like to use this boat for skiing, tubing, cruising and fishing. I have been researching drives/motors and have have come to the
conclusion that Volvo or Mercrusier drives coupled with a GM motor is a good choice for reliablitly and parts availability. I don't have a specific brand of boat in mind, looking for early 80's to early 90's, and can live with something that is a little less than showroom, i.e. seats are faded, minor wear on hull, paint faded, as long as the boat is sound. Any suggestions? I am totally wrong about my motor/drive choices? Is my price range realistic?

Thanks in advance.

 

[keith2k455]

Re: 1st Boat purchse

Re: 1st Boat purchse

From what I've seen, you're not too far off on size, year and price. Your search may be lengthy though because it may be tough to find one you're sure is structurally sound. Chances are greater with a 3.0 being around that price, but if you want to ski go for the 4.3

 

[mavryk]

Re: 1st Boat purchse

Re: 1st Boat purchse

I have been considering a 1991 Ebbtide 182 Capione with a 3.0 135hp mercrusier. I have not seen it in person, but the owner has listed several pics and the interior, hull and motor all look very clean and in excellent conditoin. I spoke with the gentleman and he has no reservations whatsoever about going for a test run, and will provide me with the service records from the local marina. He was asking $5000 for the boat, with a single axle shorelander swing-away hitch trailer, and will include skis, towline, life jackets, two new tubes. I looked at NADA and it seems he is overpriced, but the more I consider the deal, it seems like it is a good value IF the condition is as it appears in the photos, and IF the test drive checks out. He told me his bottom dollar is $4000, and the more looking I have done on CL (ugh!) the more I think this could be an excellent value. Does anyone with first hand experience with this boat, motor or drive have any specific issues that they are noted for that I should be aware of when I go to inspect the boat?



Thanks


P.S. Could anyone give me a ROUGH idea about fuel consumption with this setup?

Thanks

 

[sprobst]

Re: 1st Boat purchse

Re: 1st Boat purchse

In that price range ($5,000) 18-19 foot, I think you can do better than early 1980s and early 1990s. I would shoot for late 1990s.

 

[jestor68]

Re: 1st Boat purchse

Re: 1st Boat purchse

Have you tried looking at E-Bay; where you enter the size, type, price range and it will show everything listed that meets your criteria. Sometimes you can find well cared for 10 year old boats still in good shape.

Visit the Mercury Marine web site to view tests of 3.0L(and others) that shows performance results, included fuel use.

 

[mavryk]

Re: 1st Boat purchse

Re: 1st Boat purchse

Any suggestions as to make and model? Seems like there are a LOT of people who think their 20+ year old boat with seats that are destroyed and hulls that are, shall we say, less than pristine are still worth $5-6K. I can live with faded upholstry, even some small tears/pulled stiching and the paint can be faded/ugly/ as long as the boat is sound and motor/drive check out.

 

[mavryk]

Re: 1st Boat purchse

Re: 1st Boat purchse

Jestor-

Thanks for the advice about Ebay. I have done some looking there. My biggest concern is being able to actually inspect the boat and drive it before committing to a bid or purchase. Also, thank you for the link for performance and fuel #'s.

 

[jestor68]

Re: 1st Boat purchse

Re: 1st Boat purchse

Any suggestions as to make and model? Seems like there are a LOT of people who think their 20+ year old boat with seats that are destroyed and hulls that are, shall we say, less than pristine are still worth $5-6K. I can live with faded upholstry, even some small tears/pulled stiching and the paint can be faded/ugly/ as long as the boat is sound and motor/drive check out.

I have to laugh at some of the stupid prices being listed on CL around hear. Apparently folks think spring fever turns us into slobbering idiots. :facepalm:

 

[mavryk]

Re: 1st Boat purchse

Re: 1st Boat purchse

I have been considering a 1991 Ebbtide 182 Capione with a 3.0 135hp mercrusier. I have not seen it in person, but the owner has listed several pics and the interior, hull and motor all look very clean and in excellent conditoin. I spoke with the gentleman and he has no reservations whatsoever about going for a test run, and will provide me with the service records from the local marina. He was asking $5000 for the boat, with a single axle shorelander swing-away hitch trailer, and will include skis, towline, life jackets, two new tubes. I looked at NADA and it seems he is overpriced, but the more I consider the deal, it seems like it is a good value IF the condition is as it appears in the photos, and IF the test drive checks out. He told me his bottom dollar is $4000, and the more looking I have done on CL (ugh!) the more I think this could be an excellent value. Does anyone with first hand experience with this boat, motor or drive have any specific issues that they are noted for that I should be aware of when I go to inspect the boat?



Thanks


P.S. Could anyone give me a ROUGH idea about fuel consumption with this setup?

Thanks



Any thoughts??? Anybody????

 

[Campylobacter]

Re: 1st Boat purchse

Re: 1st Boat purchse

Jestor-

Thanks for the advice about Ebay. I have done some looking there. My biggest concern is being able to actually inspect the boat and drive it before committing to a bid or purchase. Also, thank you for the link for performance and fuel #'s.

As for Ebay, you can make it list by distance, nearest first.

Fuel consumption varies depending on use, tubing will run you over 5 galllons/hour, sitting at the sand bar is 0

 

[jkust]

Re: 1st Boat purchse

Re: 1st Boat purchse

A couple thoughts...firstly I'd shoot for something late 1990's. Your expectations are as low as I've seen in these types of posts. 3.0, faded and torn are acceptable and still willing to spend 5k. This would be the ideal time to find a boat given the number for sale but of course demand is high so prices will be higher than 6 months ago. As for NADA, it is regional since all states have a different situation but it tends to be on the low to insultingy low end depending on the boat. Here in MN, the bigger the boat, the better the deal you can get because few of our lakes can accept even a 22 foot boat practically and everyone can afford an under 20 foot version and everyone has one. Add to that that 3.0's sit and languish, 4.3's go quick (people tend to like more power as opposed to less power and get the same fuel economy of a 3.0) and v8's (not as common anyway in under 20 foot boats) are a crap shoot. My gut is you are searching for boats 10 years too old.

 

[mavryk]

Re: 1st Boat purchse

Re: 1st Boat purchse

jkust-

Thanks for the reply. You make some very good points that confirm what I am seeing as I do more looking. You addressed the 3.0vs 4.3 motor, which was a question I was getting ready to post. A local marina operator (I live in East central Iowa and the mairna is on a small
lake of about 500 acres) told me IHO 3.0 has plenty of power. I anticiapte I will mainly be using this boat on the Mississippi in SE Iowa and on the larger resivoirs like Rathbun, Red Rock here in Iowa. I was leaning towards a 4.3, as they have an excellent track record in automobile applications for dependability and fuel economy. Am I correct in my belief that all other factors being equal i.e. boat size, model, load, that a 3.0 and and 4.3 would be very similar in their fuel usage?

Once again thanks to everyone who has replied to my post. I am getting a lot of very good idea/advice/points to consider.

 

[jkust]

Re: 1st Boat purchse

Re: 1st Boat purchse

jkust-

Thanks for the reply. You make some very good points that confirm what I am seeing as I do more looking. You addressed the 3.0vs 4.3 motor, which was a question I was getting ready to post. A local marina operator (I live in East central Iowa and the mairna is on a small
lake of about 500 acres) told me IHO 3.0 has plenty of power. I anticiapte I will mainly be using this boat on the Mississippi in SE Iowa and on the larger resivoirs like Rathbun, Red Rock here in Iowa. I was leaning towards a 4.3, as they have an excellent track record in automobile applications for dependability and fuel economy. Am I correct in my belief that all other factors being equal i.e. boat size, model, load, that a 3.0 and and 4.3 would be very similar in their fuel usage?

Once again thanks to everyone who has replied to my post. I am getting a lot of very good idea/advice/points to consider.

Well like seemingly everything else in the world, 'plenty of power' is relative. Back in the day when outboards ruled, our 85 hp engine was plenty of power. Today, relatively speaking, it is not. The 3.0 has just about 45% less HP and a lot less torque than the 4.3 but with some savvy negotiating and patience, you can get a 4.3 for a similar price. Keep in mind HP was measured at the flywheel versus the prop with older engines and of course in 1996 vortec heads were added on to get to 190 prop HP on the 4.3 for example.
Both the 3.0 and 4.3 are venerable and have an excellent track record so I'm not concerned with either engine in that regard. As to fuel usage, simply put all else equal, if you got a 4.3 on a boat that say had a 3.0 as the standard power, the 4.3 works less hard to perform the same work thus getting as good of mileage as the engine with two less cylinders. There's lots of data proving that out there. I'm generally of the belief that you can negotiate the better item down to the price of the lesser item within reason. A final thought on fuel economy however is to not concern yourself with it in the first place. Boating can be expensive and the price of the boat and fuel is just the entry price to get into the game. Adding into the mix that you are contemplating buying an old boat, and your price to play will likely include more repairs and possibly some rehab plus the cost of your time which to me is the most expensive consideration.

 

[mavryk]

Re: 1st Boat purchse

Re: 1st Boat purchse

When considering motor sizes, it seems strange that a 135hp I/O would be on the light end for skiing, when I have done a lot of boating with a friend behin an old 85hp force outboard. Am I correct in my assumption this is due to:
1. Most outboards being 2cycle which gain rpm quicker due to less moving parts (no valve train)
2. There is less inertia in the power transfer in a outboard vs. I/O i.e. no shaft with gimball and u-joint to drive prop
3. 4cycle cannot safely run at as high an RPM as a 2cycle outboard

Am I correct in assuming a 135hp outboard, properly tuned would pull better/easier than a properly tuned135hp I/O, all other factors being equal?

I really appreciate eveyone's input. I am very mechanically inclined and generally do all my own work to my autos, but have never really done much with marine engines. Thanks again

 

[mavryk]

Re: 1st Boat purchse

Re: 1st Boat purchse

Thanks for the info. I totally agree about the fuel economy- it is not a primary concern, just curious and I have experienced first hand in autos that in some applications a 4cyl 3.0 is LESS efficient than a 4.3 in the similar vehicles due to the smaller engine having to work much harder. Thanks again

 

[jkust]

Re: 1st Boat purchse

Re: 1st Boat purchse

When considering motor sizes, it seems strange that a 135hp I/O would be on the light end for skiing, when I have done a lot of boating with a friend behin an old 85hp force outboard. Am I correct in my assumption this is due to:
1. Most outboards being 2cycle which gain rpm quicker due to less moving parts (no valve train)
2. There is less inertia in the power transfer in a outboard vs. I/O i.e. no shaft with gimball and u-joint to drive prop
3. 4cycle cannot safely run at as high an RPM as a 2cycle outboard

Am I correct in assuming a 135hp outboard, properly tuned would pull better/easier than a properly tuned135hp I/O, all other factors being equal?

I really appreciate eveyone's input. I am very mechanically inclined and generally do all my own work to my autos, but have never really done much with marine engines. Thanks again

Well you've delved into a whole host of issues, each of which could be their own thread by themselves. I actually grew up on an 80's Bayliner with an 85 HP, Force engine back in the 80's. We'd pull tripples with it quite frequently without issue however the boat weighs exactly a thousand lbs. Suffice it to say, I got really good at watersports and balancing while it lugged us all out of the water and even started the hot pick up where you don't even stop to pick up a fallen skier/boarder. We though that thing was just fantastic and at 40+mph with a ski prop on it (ie higher rpm's but slower than it could go), it would be half way across the lake by the time the I/O's caught up and passed. Again the 'light end' is relative. The 85hp seemed fine, until you jump into the neighbor's 130hp I/O with a lot more torque (torque is generally not referred to in boating applications) and again repeat when you jump into a 4.3 and on and on. The responses to all of your questions are again relative but in general yes but understand HP is HP and weight plays a big part. I actually love two strokes for some of the reason's you mention as well as their huge weight advantage and lack of lost HP to the prop as compared to I/O's. In the snowmobile world for example you need a heavy turbo 4 stroke to equate to an old school 2 stroke. Each however has its advantages and disadvantages. There are people that will argue all day that the 3.0 is just fine no matter the paper and performance differences of a 4.3. Everyone's expectations and experiences are different. My grandma could never understand how a radio could possibly sound better than her clock radio. Again it boils down to more is better than less and with more you don't have to use it but it's there when you need it.

 

[mavryk]

Re: 1st Boat purchse

Re: 1st Boat purchse

Thanks so much for the input. Your reference to the snowmobile engines is what I was basing a lot of my assumptions on. I guess where I'm at in the decision process is that I am open to either 3.0 or 4.3, or a 5.0 or 5.7. I am most concerned about the overall condition of the boat and the service the owne/upkeep that the owner has done. And yes, I totally agree it is always nice to have a little something left when ya mash the throttle than to be wishing you had just a touch more.

I really appreciate eveyone's input. Something I always keep in the back of my mind when these kind of debates arise i.e. best motor, best breed of coondog, best shotgun maker, best automoblie manufacturer is that it is human nature to feel the "best" is whatever we happen to own at the time, and I do not exclude myself from this tendency.

I am trying to form a checklist of specific items to inspect when I find a boat that I want to take a look at. Here is what I have so far.

1. Hull condition- scratches, nicks, fading, general condition
2. Interior conditions- soft spots in deck, rips/tears/worn/faded upholstry, foam damage on seats, worn/ripped carpeting
3. Electronics- all switches/guages/accessories functional, any loose/cobbled wiring
4. Powerplant- throttle works smoothly, motor clean, no leaks, no evidence of fires, all components attached/secured properly, wiring clean/neat/correct terminations, starts easily, runs well w/o rattles/ tics. etc, no oil burning, oil level/pressure/condition good, no excess vibrations
5. Drive unit- clean, no unreasonable wear/dings/chewed up props, tilt/trim working smoothly, steering turns smoothly, fluid looks in good condition,
6. Test cruise- boat shifts/accelerates smootly, no undue hesitations, motor sounds correct, temp/oil etc. gauges working and reading properly, boat planes and rides well, turns properly, no unexpected vibrations, horn, lights, bilge pump function properly
7. After cruise- fluids in motor and drive all proper level, clean, clear, drain hull to see that it has not taken on water
8. Trailer- overall condtion, tires, bearings, brakes, lights, wiring harness

Ok guys, tell me what I'm overlooking

Thanks

 

[fen-isl]

Re: 1st Boat purchse

Re: 1st Boat purchse

Good luck on your boat search, Glastron and Chaparral are both excellent boats, Chaparral being at the higher end of the boat builders. As for I/O or outboard I think that is just a personal choice. When I do it again I will be looking for another outboard, there is just a lot less maintenance, The 1980's and 1990's model years are a lot easier to find outboards, but with the cost of a new 4 stroke outboard its hard to find anything but I/O's in the 2000's and up 18-19ft bowrider. I miss the smell of my 1994 Johnson's two stroke exhaust. 'Since you seem to want a I/O I would do the 1996 4.3 and up, Chaparral made 19ft boats with v6 and a v8 also, If you find any 1930 ss or sst you will find a nice all around boat. Thicker fiberglass Hull, and the seat vinyl is heavy duty also. If you find one in the 2000's they have fiberglass floors which is also a nice feature. The model number changed in the 2000's to a 180 ss or ssi

Good luck

Hey and just a tip, when you check the oil on the I/o's also wipe your finger on the under side of the valve cover to check for water.. I learned this the hard way, the bottom side of the oil fill cap was clean, the dipstick was clean, but when I pumped the oil out there was water, the dipstick on my engine never goes directly into the oil pan, it is on the side so the oil in the tube never mixes with the crankcase oil..
Just my 2 cents

 

[jkust]

Re: 1st Boat purchse

Re: 1st Boat purchse

Best of breed is tough with boats of a certain vintage. There is a sort of order of operations and the condition really needs to trump brand. You can have a trailer queen of a Bayliner (generally the bottom of the barrel in the 80's and 90's) and a deceivengly bad condition Sea Ray, small bowrider (nice in the 80's and 90's and fell off a cliff early in the 2000's but still trade on their history). Some of this is just common sensical but a boat in the 2000's to me would have a different order of operations in the considerations I'd make to buy. In other words, while you can have a neglected 2003 boat, I'd first shop for brand then discern the condition.
Given you are in Iowa then, the big issue I'd concern myself with beyond the soft floor, etc, is getting stuck with an engine that wasn't winterized properly. Proper winterization at minimum requires the block of an I/O to be manually drained unlike an outboard that is self draining. It is common to see people buy used boats but got stung with a bad engine having not performed a compression test. That requires R&R of the block at a minimum. When you do buy, don't just test it on muffs on the trailer because that can hide all kinds of issues as compared to an on water test. Test it for a long time and if you can, put what will be a normal load in there with you.
All other things aside my two big things are rot and where there is a little, there tends to be a lot more you can't see and the engine issues I mentioned.

 

[southkogs]

Re: 1st Boat purchse

Re: 1st Boat purchse

There's a great thread on what to look for on a water test HERE.