2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

[1stoutboard]

I stopped at the dealer where I bought my boat from 3 weeks ago, and asked him about his suggestion for 2 stroke brand. The first thing I thought he was going to say was , use Yamalube , since i have a 90 hp 2 stroke Yamaha. Of course not, he says , use Mercury plus 2 stroke , it helps in this and that, carbon and the whole story that I have reading around for weeks now. I said to him that Yamaha states in the manual that you can use any 2 stroke oil if Yamalube is not available. He said Mercury is better for reducing carbon deposits and all the other good stuff. And if use other stuff , the deposits around the rings are not covered by warranty. <br />So , now we have a dealer who is promoting a totally different brand that what the manufacturer suggested. They are all NMMA certified from Walmart supertech, which is made by Shell Oil, to all the other brands that are saturating the market here in florida. I have read thread after thread , on this forum on 2 stroke oil, until my brain was fried, and now I am more confused than ever, thinking, is the service guy being honest with me or not.or maybe they have loads and loads of Mercury 2 stroke oil that they wanna sell. <br /> It is nice to live in a free market society, and we should feel lucky that we live in this great nation, but there is an overload of information and merchandise in the market, enough to drive you crazy.

 

[lonewolf5347]

Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

1stoutboard I have a 2 stoke 2003 90 hp yamaha on my sea pro 18 cc motor has about 25 hours on it and for piece of mind and the warranty issue I just stay with the yamaha oil between the merc. oil and the yam oil both are exspensive too bad I was not able to get down to ed's marine yard sale this week $52.00 bucks a case of yam lube and refill drum yam. lube $7.00 a gallon.

 

[1stoutboard]

Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

Dealer is refilling the gallon for $11.50.I think I am going to get that Mercury oil so i don't have any problems, i just put 18 hours on mine. thanks for your input wolf.

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

My 2 cents is that no one ever can tell you this one is better than that one, unless they have scientific data to prove it. I dont think I have ever seen any data like this.<br /><br />And one oil in one type of engine may work differently in another type of engine.<br /><br />Till they show me proof, its the Walmart brand for me!<br /><br />Ken

 

[BillP]

Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

I wouldn't get hung up on it. For the most part, every ob mechanic will swear their oil is best and the other guy's is bad for your motor. Do the latest TWC oil, decarbonize as preventive maintenance and don't worry. <br /><br />Also, it is against the law for a company to require you to use a certain oil. I don't remember the name of the law but they have to honor the warranty if you follow the standards (such as TCW).

 

[1stoutboard]

Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

Thank you for eveyone's insight. After reading and thinking about this, all of you had a valid point. After looking at my owner's manual where it says " If the recommended engine oil is not available, another 2 stroke engine oil with a NMMA-certified TC-W3 rating may be used " and that is according to Yamaha. I am going to through the book in the dealer's face and call my lawyer if they say , you are not using what we suggested. That is my bottom line now. Walmart here I come. How often should I decarbonize , do I have to take the carbs out or add something to the fuel. ?

 

[Hasbeen]

Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

I keep hearing it over and over again! "Buy the cheapest oil you can find with the TCWW III rating, Decorbonize and by spark plugs by the case!"<br /><br />Its the cheep oil that causes the carbon and makes you have to buy all those spark plugs! Why mot just buy the good stuff and save the money on all that Sea Foam (a good product), and sparkplugs! AmsOil, Synergyn, Penzoil Synthetics!<br /><br />They perform better too! Also less polution and less smoke! To quote another post, AM I MISSING SOMETHING HERE?? Oh, wont void your warantee either!<br /><br />Hasbeen

 

[BillP]

Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

No matter what oil used you should decarbonize every season or two. I've had a few motors apart and it takes 100s & 100s of hours for any TCW oil to start building up crud. I've used Wally World and the name brands and don't see any difference. A motor on Wally oil will run 2000+ hrs just like the name oil. If a motor builds up crud quickly or eats plugs it is out of tune, running too cold or has excess oil mixed in. It isn't cheap TCW oil doing it.

 

[Oil Man]

Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

I'm on my 10th year on my Merc 115. After using Merc oil for 3 years, I switched to a good quality synthetic oil (Amsoil). The difference between the two is amazing. I thought changing plugs every year was normal until I switched. Now I change them when they wear out. They are actually cleaner after a year than the plugs in my 4 stroke Honda. And I never decarbonize. It's a waste of time and money.<br /><br />Hasbeen is right on. Anybody that has used the old stuff then switched to a good quality synthetic will tell you that the synthetic is much cleaner.<br /><br />Dave

 

[Hasbeen]

Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

Thanks Dave:<br /><br />Just the performance alone is worth it! If just one of these guys that think there oil is doing its best for them would just try Amsoil for just one tank full and in there lower units too, they would never go back!<br /><br />Less smoke, smoother operation and easier starting! I too would probably never beleive it either if I hadnt experienced it for myself! My time is worth more to me than to spend an hour spraying decarb through my engine and changing spark plugs! Myself, I think its worth every dime! I picked up 300 RPM at top end with my changover! <br /><br />Hasbeen

 

[BillP]

Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

Ok, I hear ya but...I started using synthetics in outboards back in 1978 when it was "new" and cost $5+ a quart...and yes I picked up maybe 50 rpms on a 50hp omc but stopped using it because there was no history to go on. I also used it in my 2 stroke motocross bikes back in the 80s. I bought cases of the stuff and still use Bel-Ray and Golden Spectro in my land based motors...lawnmower, chainsaw and weedwacker. So, I guess this gives me somewhat of a clue on synthetics and their nature. Yes they burn clean but sometimes the clean running can bite you...like when the auto lube systems go down and you don't have any smoke as a telltale. Yep, if you forget to mix the oil it looks the same too. <br /><br />I do NOT use synthetic in my outboards because it does NOT leave sufficient film on the internal parts to keep corrosion away. It is too thin and too slippery to provide protection for any length of time. In Florida this means about 4 weeks when sitting outside in a boatlift. With regular pet oil this protective time goes out to months & months. I have a couple(5)of rigs and they don't all get used often enough to make this a moot point. Down here very few outboards wear out from wear induced lube issues, they are history from corrosion. Regular OB oil will push a motor way past 2k running hours regardless. Besides that, I just haven't seen the hassles with regular oil that you guys had.<br /><br />Concerning changing plugs in outboards, I change them between 100-300 hrs and don't have problems, period.

 

[kenneths]

Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

Oil man, you are making a very common and possibly ignition system destroying mistake!<br /> Plugs should be changed every 100hrs, or once a year, period. If you wait till they "Wear out" as you say, at that point the ignition system is working double-time to fire the plugs because you have created a very HIGH resistance situation.<br /> When the plug doesn't fire, the charge has to go somewhere, and mark my word, you WILL be having ignition problems in the near future.....<br /> Why nobody understands this, I don't know???????<br /> Contrary to what some may think, you are getting the same fuel/oil mixture with fuel injection/oil injection, as you are with pre-mix with the exception of DFI's where the fuel is less, but the oil is the same.<br /> Some people say all oils are the same-HOGWASH...<br /> The Johnson/Evinrude XD 25 is partial synthetic, with extra detergent additives, and also a small amount of fuel stabilizer that allows use after setting for 2-3 months with no Ill effects-not enough to "keep" through winter, but enough to make the summer without degradation of fuel which with 87 pump gas, can begin to break down after 2 weeks in a vented tank.<br /> This is the diff. between TCW2, and TCW3....an ingredient that allows fuel and oil to mix and last longer. (usable longer).

 

[Hasbeen]

Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

Well, Id like to say this about that!!<br /><br />If oilman has been using amsoil for seven of the ten years that he has had his 115, and has had NO problems with ignition or engine, and I suppose his sets through the winter like the rest of us, Then I would say that there is plenty of protection there!! I do not beleive in the resistance issue that I keep hearing about! Cars have just as hot of ignitions as boats, also computer controled and when its time to change plugs in them they are sometimes really wasted!! When I have looked at plugs ran for a year or two on an outboard they still would look new after a good cleaning! And dont tell me they break down internally either because there is nothing inside to break down!<br /><br />Is there a sparkplug expert out there that can clearify this piont?? Im always open!<br /><br />Our engines run just as good after two years with the same plugs! If they were breaking down wouldnt you notice a performance change??<br /><br />Hasbeen

 

[Oil Man]

Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

Kenny,<br /><br />Maybe I should define what I mean by "worn out". I change my plugs when the center electrode is worn, and starting to round off. Also there will be some wear on the ground electrode and the gap will increase.<br /><br />As far as the resistance increasing, as long as the gap does not get too large, and the plug isn't fouling, resistance is not an issue. Pull out your trusy Ohm meter and measure the resistance on a brand new plug. It will read infinity. Can't get any more resistance than that!<br />I have an electrical engineering degree, so I know about current flow and resistance and what happens during the milliseconds when the spark jumps the gap, but it all comes down to the spark taking the path of least resistance and as long as my plugs aren't fouled or gapped too large that path is through the air gap.<br /><br />As far as the film and corrosion resistance, a true synthetic is more tenacious than petro oil. And actually, they both do not inhibit corrosion very well by themselves. It is the additives that neutralize the acids and inhibit corrosion. That is exactly why you don't want to use cheap oil. They scimp on the additive package.<br /><br />Dave

 

[kenneths]

Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

Hasbeen, it's clear you have no understanding of sparkplugs. the inner core is where the resistance builds because of heat over a period of time changes the charactoristics of the electrode.<br /> I've fixed many a boat just changing plugs because they did not disapate heat properly.<br /> If you think you understand the electrical Part so well, call any plug manufacturer, and ask them....I have.....

 

[sloopy]

Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

Amsoil is completely different then most two stroke oils. If amsoil ruins your engine, amsoil will replace it (they will ask for a sample of the oil and to see the engine) Amsoil Really stands behind there oils. www.thebestoil.com

 

[sloopy]

Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

Amsoil is completely different then most two stroke oils. If amsoil ruins your engine, amsoil will replace it (they will ask for a sample of the oil and to see the engine) Amsoil Really stands behind there oils. www.thebestoil.com

 

[Hasbeen]

Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

KENNYS:<br /><br />Sound like youve got about as much tact as I have, Not much!<br /><br />If you will re read my reply I ask if there was anyone out there that was an expert on spark plugs to clear this up!! And that I was always open!! I guess that petty much states that I dont now much about spark plugs and that Im willing to hear from a pro! You never answered any of my questions though!!<br /><br />Stand down!!<br /><br />Hasbeen

 

[walleyehed]

Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

Hasbeen, sorry if I came accross so hard... it wasn't directed at you. Although you did post that the resistance issue was a joke. I have a very dear friend that works for Champion and is a specialty tech on plugs other than automotive.....I just got off the phone with him, and he just laughs at the fact that people don't understand the "resistance issue" with plugs, especially 2-strokes, he says.<br /> On another note, amzoil is a super product, and I will never bad-mouth that in particular.<br /> You know that at times, all of us know a little more about one subject than another, and I do not in any way consider myself a know-it-all, because I'm not, but man, it's frustrating when you've got the knowledge on a particular subject, and you get shot down.......All I would like to do is offer my knowledge to those who may need a pointer or two..........<br />No harm intended.............

 

[Hasbeen]

Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

OK, I will go along with what you say, but I still think that people change plugs way too often, (I sure could be wrong!) Why two strokes and if they are going bad wouldnt you notice a performance change like the loss of a couple hundred RPMs?? Like oilman said, you can check resistance on an old plug and a new one and they will be the same!! (Maybe different with high voltage)! I realize that they fire every time the piston is up which makes it twice as much as a car! My rotory (Mazda RX/7) eats spark plugs, but you can see the wear! I do change plugs every couple years,but I see no reson to change them any sooner!! Am I all wet on this!! Ive never had electrical issues at all! Except now, and they were new plugs! (See post,"Merc 150 lost top end power")<br /><br />Allways willing to learn!!<br /><br />Hasbeen