2000 E150FPXSSM LOOSES IGNITION ON START UP

[Pazi]

I know this has been brought up before but here is my problem. After cleaning all the terminals (even the ones under the Ecm, and all the connections and changing the fuel filter this problem occurs. Alarm horn goes to steady blast if I hesitate on the on position with the key in the control box. If I quickly turn the key from off to start it starts most every time. Cold, or warmed up. I also have my oil tank almost full. If I hesitate on the on position engine will not turn over. After that I have to wait about 5 minutes and it will start up. And when it starts it runs fine. Temperature at the heads is between 138 and 150 F. Checked with an infrared meter. Any further help will be appreciated. I want to make sure I'm not overlooking something before i invest in another ECM. Thank you.

 

[Crosbyman]

without at least getting a dump of the fault codes with EV diagnostic software it is anybodies guess.

I certainly would not invest in a new ECM before knowing what is wrong ... it could even be a simple cooling problem in the ECM , or a blockage, oil pressure sensor etc....

if you start to throw parts $$$$ at it it will be long road to happiness.

 

[Pazi]

Thanks Crosbyman. Yes, that is what I'm trying to do. I have checked the water temps and they all appear to be cool. (around 135-150 F on a water hose) I did not check the temp at the ECM, so I'll do that today. It seems strange that the ignition and starter loose power only if I leave the key switch in the on position for a couple of seconds or so. It doesn't seem to matter if I run it for a couple of minutes or for longer. If I quickly turn the key from off to start, starts right up. If I hesitate ion the on position horn goes to steady and no apparent ignition and no starter solenoid power.

 

[Pazi]

Should my oil sensor read open or closed with an ohms check with engine off and then started up?

 

[racerone]

Perhaps issues with " power distribution " module.----Bunch of relays and fuses in there.----Item #67 ----586754 ?

 

[Crosbyman]

ok sounds morre like an intermittent issue.

any chance the start key is flaky...?

It seems strange that the ignition and starter loose power only if I leave the key switch in the on position for a couple of seconds or so.

the #67 PDP has a history of solder joint issues (cold solder on the main B+ wire at the bottom corner entry point into the PDP. that B+ feeds T&T also .....

Is T&T dead at the same time when you have a NO START condition ??

While dead when holding the key you can maybe have a friend try to wiggle and tap things around or simply tap the PDP box directly to check for a reaction. .. if things come alive you may have found the issue .

if not remove the cover and has suggested by racerone ...check inside for loose fuses, dirty fuse contacts (remove clean reinsert) ....

should you have a cold solder B+ joint openning up and causing erratic continuity on the 12v supply I have read they can be resoldered fairly easy ifyou are handy with a soldering iron (do not overheat things more than necessary )

 

[Crosbyman]

see old post of what can happen. not saying it is but...

in any event when you have a dead condition some voltage testing is in order and that all depends on you trouble shooting skillls..

for example the ignition key receives 12V from the engine and returns it (see PDP electrical flows) so at the very least check it out with somebody holding that key while DEAD.... and someone doing the Voltage testing at the back end.

No power. No trim. Motor acts like battery is dead even though it has a full charge

When I turn the key on my 2001 rude ram nothing happens lights on the dash won't come on nothing. Checked all the fuses they are good I'm lost as to what could be the issue. I've put test lights on different wires and not all my wires have power going to them is it the main relay or the EMM that...

forums.iboats.com

 

[Pazi]

I've checked the PDB. All fuses, solder, relays. My wife could feel the the ignition/stop relay fail as I left the key in on position. It would click on at first and click off a moment later with a no starter result. As suggested to me I'm trying to find out if the oil sensor should be open or closed with an ohms check with engine off and with engine running?

 

[Pazi]

Thanks again Crosbyman. When I have the failure, I still have trim up and down. It only seems to effect the ignition and starter. I can jump the starter solenoid when failure happens and starter will engage, but no ignition.

 

[Crosbyman]

If they they are identical ( part #) and you know the T&T relays are OK . have you tried taking a T&T relay and swapping it with the failing relay.


I doubt the oil sensor is faulty because the engine does run when you get it going.

this is why having EV diagnostic software helps out. on a ETEC version which came after yours, a no oil code 38 does not prevent the engine starting but it will keep it in SAFE mode about 1200 rpm s max.

you can get the EV SW on the web with the necessary connector to analyse pst and current faults . Mind you this issue looks more electrical and CPU logic issue.

 

[Crosbyman]

you can get the EV SW on the web with the necessary connector to analyse pst and current faults . Mind you this issue looks more electrical than a CPU logic issue.

good for ETEC and....FICHT link from the ETEC user group

Evinrude Diagnostics Version 5 A Guide To Getting Started

EVINRUDE DIAGNOSTICS VERSION 5 A GUIDE TO GETTING STARTED September 2021 INTRODUCTION This guide is primarily intended to help Evinrude E-TEC owners. The words...

docs.google.com

 

[Pazi]

you can get the EV SW on the web with the necessary connector to analyse pst and current faults . Mind you this issue looks more electrical than a CPU logic issue.

good for ETEC and....FICHT link from the ETEC user group

Evinrude Diagnostics Version 5 A Guide To Getting Started

EVINRUDE DIAGNOSTICS VERSION 5 A GUIDE TO GETTING STARTED September 2021 INTRODUCTION This guide is primarily intended to help Evinrude E-TEC owners. The words...

docs.google.com

Thank you. I will get one.

you can get the EV SW on the web with the necessary connector to analyse pst and current faults . Mind you this issue looks more electrical than a CPU logic issue.

good for ETEC and....FICHT link from the ETEC user group

Evinrude Diagnostics Version 5 A Guide To Getting Started

EVINRUDE DIAGNOSTICS VERSION 5 A GUIDE TO GETTING STARTED September 2021 INTRODUCTION This guide is primarily intended to help Evinrude E-TEC owners. The words...

docs.google.com

What do you mean by CPU logic? Are your revering to the ECM Also engine seems to wind up past 1200. Sounds more like 3500 plus. probably more. So I guess that it is not in safe mode?

 

[Crosbyman]

ECM EMM CPU's all synonyms for computer controlled engines

Hard to guess from here .....but if your engine does not let you run max RPM when it does run it may very well be in SAFE mode to limit any damages to the engine. You should get a manual on this engine .

this indicates the "ECM" detects an anomaly beyond just electrical and decides to shut down the max RPMs or simply shut down the starting cycle. (logic decision based on input variables monitored like throttle position, crank position, open injectors cores, fuel pump faults etc..)

Here is link to an ETEC manual for 200HP... Sons of FICHT ETECs EMM
basically work the same. read up on EMM's role in life

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dNOW8iHsysHRWDBmoz68EGZt3gv6hKLY/view


The ECM/EMM/CPU monitors several sensors and calls the shot .

go nogo slow mode (safe) and... permanent shut down till the issue is cleared properly .

I am afraid you may need to take it in for repairs if unable to proceed further with your trouble shooting.

EV diagnostics is likely cheaper and along with a good service manual may lead you to get going again. All part of boating costs :-(

btw... EV diag runs fine on my cheap 300$ Walmart laptop (windows 10).... up to you to invest or not.

 

[Crosbyman]

USB Diagnostic Tool Scanner KIT with Bootstrap for EVINRUDE Outboard Engine E-TEC/Fitch : Amazon.ca: Automotive

USB Diagnostic Tool Scanner KIT with Bootstrap for EVINRUDE Outboard Engine E-TEC/Fitch : Amazon.ca: Automotive

www.amazon.ca

Boot strap cable is for by knowledgable techs ...used for modifying certain files... best not to mess with it !

the traingular cable allows safe accesss to fault logs & some testing features

if you go on the ETEC user board which DO NOT REPLY TO FICHT questions you will find lots of information by doing seraches on the subject. all depends on how far you want to go with this .

E-TEC Discussions - Barnacle Bill's Marine Supply

Talk about anything ETEC

www.etecownersgroup.com

 

[Pazi]

OK, I got the diagnostic adapter with out bootstrap. I uploaded the progam into my laptop ok. followed start up procedure several times and can not connect between ecm and computer. I get the message no connection, check key or check cable. Made several attempts at that. NO luck. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Pazi]

ok sounds morre like an intermittent issue.

any chance the start key is flaky...?

It seems strange that the ignition and starter loose power only if I leave the key switch in the on position for a couple of seconds or so.

the #67 PDP has a history of solder joint issues (cold solder on the main B+ wire at the bottom corner entry point into the PDP. that B+ feeds T&T also .....

Is T&T dead at the same time when you have a NO START condition ??

While dead when holding the key you can maybe have a friend try to wiggle and tap things around or simply tap the PDP box directly to check for a reaction. .. if things come alive you may have found the issue .

if not remove the cover and has suggested by racerone ...check inside for loose fuses, dirty fuse contacts (remove clean reinsert) ....

should you have a cold solder B+ joint openning up and causing erratic continuity on the 12v supply I have read they can be resoldered fairly easy ifyou are handy with a soldering iron (do not overheat things more than necessary )

ok sounds morre like an intermittent issue.

any chance the start key is flaky...?

It seems strange that the ignition and starter loose power only if I leave the key switch in the on position for a couple of seconds or so.

the #67 PDP has a history of solder joint issues (cold solder on the main B+ wire at the bottom corner entry point into the PDP. that B+ feeds T&T also .....

Is T&T dead at the same time when you have a NO START condition ??

While dead when holding the key you can maybe have a friend try to wiggle and tap things around or simply tap the PDP box directly to check for a reaction. .. if things come alive you may have found the issue .

if not remove the cover and has suggested by racerone ...check inside for loose fuses, dirty fuse contacts (remove clean reinsert) ....

should you have a cold solder B+ joint openning up and causing erratic continuity on the 12v supply I have read they can be resoldered fairly easy ifyou are handy with a soldering iron (do not overheat things more than necessary )

What is the T&T you are referring to? I purchased the diagnotic tool and now can not get connection between ECM out let plug and my computer. I do have the dio system downloaded ok.

 

[Crosbyman]

T&T is short for tilt and trim system

the plug is triangular on a ETEC ...

using the FDTI drivers with the USB cable or serial interface.

did you read HELP FILES
the other one booth strap is for brain surgery on the ECM .do not use!!

did you follow instructions to register the software
number 654321
name... PAZI MARINE
address 1234 nowhere street
state FL
zip code 123456
country USA

I used jack marine on my version

key ON ....? when trying to connect .
hook up and click CONNECT

Suggest you reviw above post on how to register & use EV sw
I had to try a few times myself.

see sect 9
9.Software Registration
Navigation. Main Menu-> Information -> Register Software.
Or Main Menu -> Help -> Contents -> Windows, Forms, Frames and Dialogs -> Information-> Register Software

 

[Pazi]

I'll review what you have suggested. I believe I've registered ok, but I'll check that also. Remember, my ignition times out when I leave the key on, so I don't know if that effects anything with the diagnostic hook up?

 

[Crosbyman]

I do not think the EMM would talk back to EV diag. if it was not powered ... if or when your ignition " times"....... out hopefully it is not a basic wire problem....

you should at a minimum ascertain what happens to the 12v supplied to your ECM . Unfortunately I do not have a wire diagram. other running voltages may be involved to trigger the shut down .

things ususally "time out" or stop functionning because they get hot, some timer or sense logic expires or something "opens up" or fails due to poor connections be it vibration, oxydation ...whatever.

keep trying to get EV diag. going or locate some diagrams to do basic testing. unfortunately my ETEC dealer who passed away. years ago .. always said good FICHT experts were a dying breed to :-(

 

[Crosbyman]

Been reading all this again... ok I had missed the fact you said T&T works....

the engine runs fine so ECM works and it is not a HOT ECM issue causing the problem

ODD that the speed of turning the key ON impacts the starting logic incl the starter that seems to stop for a few minutes.

we are back to basic trouble shooting . for example when the key is in START the starter selenoid should at the very least turn the engine over if not ... then it is either not being told to do so via the selenoid control wire path or a ECM "no go" decision . this is where a wire diagram becomes important to backtrace ... On ETEC some components are ground driven by the "EMM" .... versus the conventional way of turning on things witha a BAtt supply... generally 12v .

can't help much more and hopefully FICHT are not all R.I..P. if that is the only possibility left.