2007 Mercruiser 5.0 non-EFI - sometimes stalls after cruising a while, but re-starts

slongholio

Seaman Apprentice
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May 15, 2009
Messages
31
In a Sea Ray 205 sport.

Last year a couple times it just cut off on me after I had been crusing along about 2800-3000 rpms for about half an hour or so. I'm pretty sure the rpms aren't directly related, but I put that in to explain that it isn't at idle, etc. Just while cruising. Started back up after a minute and ran fine the rest of the day. Did this on two or three different outings over the season, but since it started back up fine and ran the rest of the day each time with no problems, I didn't have it looked at. I inquired at the shop but they said probably this, probably that, they'd have to diagnose it.

Since it only did it a few times the whole year, and I use the boat every day the weather is nice on weekends, I told them to hold off, since they likely wouldn't encounter the problem, and I'd just end up with a bill for their time to ride around in my boat.

Skip forward to this year. I take the boat out, cruise around all day - about 4 hours worth of engine time, and starting to head back, it just cut off on me. This time it wouldn't restart and we had to get towed back. It turns over and cranks fine, but no start.

I waited a few days and had them put it back in the water for me (it's kept in dry storage in a building) to try it out to see if maybe it's intermittent. It's not. Didn't smell any fuel after trying several attempts, so I turned the blower off and tried a few more times. Still don't smell fuel. Just more info.

So I told them to service it up for me, knowing that it will likely cost me an arm and a leg. I can change spark plugs, oil, even did my axles in my car once, but I'm by no means proficient, so I'll let them do what they do best and free my time up to go get the chores around the house done so once it's fixed I can get back on the lake.

So Wednesday rolls around and I haven't heard anything from them since I called them Monday AM to order the service. Long story short, they have no idea when they can start on it, maybe 1 1/2 to 2 weeks.

So now I'm going to try to see if there are some "easy" things I can try myself, just to get my boat back sooner. To start, I went in today to pick up a fuel filter. After giving a brief rundown to the obviously frazzled service guy working the parts counter, he says I can go ahead with the fuel filter, but he'd bet me any amount of money it's not that, and probably is the igition sensor, and would be around $200 including the part, when they whenever they can finally get around to checking on it. He was so busy I didn't press him with any more questions, but is that something I could try myself too? Where would I go about diagnosing or where can I get some good info on how to proceed? Kind of upsetting to be paying over $500 a month for a boat with just over a hundred hours on it, kept inside, and all maintenance done on schedule.

First thing I check is the lanyard, or kill switch - heh - since I know that will likely be the first thing everyone asks. Oh, and when I scheduled the service, they asked me if I hit anything, was there oil in it, was it overheating... No to none of the above. Nothing out of the ordinary other that it just suddenly quit, as if I had bumped the kill switch (which I confirmed I did not)

I'm the kind of guy that can mess up changing the spark plugs. I know how to do stuff, and I understand how they work, but I'm not really coordinated with my hands. For instance when I changed my spark plugs in my car, I dropped one of them and it magically landed in that hard to reach pan underneath the engine. And yes, it had the rubber gasket in there to keep that from happening. Another time I changed the wires, and even though I numbered them as I took them off, I still messed up the order and had to go online and find the right order, hehe.

I guess I'm trying to say I can do stuff if necessary, but my time is better spent on other things and letting the professionals handle it. In this case they're going to be too busy until after memorial day, so I'm gonna try to struggle my way through it. Any idea of some other things I can try while I wait that aren't too difficult? I'll have a friend in town next weekend who could take the engine apart and put it back together, but I was hoping to be out on the lake instead of working on the boat then. And we can't get parts on the weekend, so we'll be done with that anyway if any parts are needed.
 

HT32BSX115

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 8, 2005
Messages
10,083
Re: 2007 Mercruiser 5.0 non-EFI - sometimes stalls after cruising a while, but re-sta

Howdy,

A couple of things may be happening. First of all, change the fuel filter.

You also may have debri in the fuel tank intermittanatly blocking the fuel pick-up screen.

On the other hand, you may have higher than normal temps in the engine compartment and it's causing vapor lock. Mercury has a service bulletin you might have a look at: http://www.boatfix.com/merc/Bullet/99/99_07.pdf .....Problems like that are frequently fuel related.



Regards,


Rick
 

slongholio

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
May 15, 2009
Messages
31
Re: 2007 Mercruiser 5.0 non-EFI - sometimes stalls after cruising a while, but re-sta

Howdy,

A couple of things may be happening. First of all, change the fuel filter.

You also may have debri in the fuel tank intermittanatly blocking the fuel pick-up screen.

On the other hand, you may have higher than normal temps in the engine compartment and it's causing vapor lock. Mercury has a service bulletin you might have a look at: http://www.boatfix.com/merc/Bullet/99/99_07.pdfProblems .....Problems like that are frequently fuel related.



Regards,


Rick

Thanks Rick. I was thinking fuel filter too, and a quick and easy check. I bought the fuel filter today and will try it this weekend. Funny thing when it quit that last day, they were out of fuel filters. Today they had several cases of them.

I post back after I try it in case it helps someone else.

I'll also check the service bulletin later.

I was perfectly happy to let them charge me the $27 for the labor, even though I know it only takes a minute. Unfortunately the timing of when they'd be able to do it was off since they can't get to it for a couple of weeks. I think everyone all of a sudden decided to take their boats out, de-winterizing, etc etc. Even though it's been in the 70s off and on for a couple of months now.

The guy in service I bough the filter from says he's pretty sure it's not going to help, but first place he'd check is the ignition sensor. Does he know something I don't know?

I keep my boat in dry storage there. I wonder if they go around during the winter messing with people's boats so they can charge for service when summer comes around, and he already knows something is up with it. Or they just want to soak me for the $200 instead of the $27 for the filter. Maybe I'm a little too paranoid, but when I saw they sold out of fuel filters it got my suspicions up. Especially when the guy at the counter found it odd too. "That's weird, we had a whole shelf full of them the other day" was what he said.

I'd hope that with me buying my boat there, paying to store it there, getting regular maintenance there, buying fuel there, supplies, etc., they would at least let me pay the thing off before they start scamming me. (Joking here - I don't believe it to be true :D ) They had to give me new fenders and fire extinguisher because mine disappeared over the winter, even though my boat is stored on the top rack stacked 4 high all the way in the back of dry storage. Who would climb up there to steal them, but not take anything else, unless they had my boat out "fixing it"?

Oh well, what's one to do?

Anyway, thanks for the advice on the filter. Maybe that will be all and I can quit being so paranoid.

I know it is possible, but how likely is it, from your experience, for a new boat with around 100 hours on it over two seasons to have picked up enough crap in the gas to cause these problems? I always have bought my gas at the same place where I store the boat. I assume if there was a problem with the gas there, they would know about it from all their other customers in dry storage and they would let us know right?

I might buy a trailer just so I can take it out and go fill up at a real gas station, instead of paying almost double for a gallon of gas that might have debris and/or water in it. Maybe if I had a trailer, I wouldn't pay to store it there too. Sure is convenient not having to deal with the boat ramp though.
 

slongholio

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
May 15, 2009
Messages
31
Re: 2007 Mercruiser 5.0 non-EFI - sometimes stalls after cruising a while, but re-sta

Just checked the bulletin. Vapor lock would go away when I tried to start the engine and it wouldn't start after having sat a few days right?

More in line with fuel not flowing. I'll take off the air cleaner and check it out to make sure gas is getting in there after I do the filter if that doesn't fix it. I didn't smell any after quite a few attempts at starting it, even with the blower turned off.
 

HT32BSX115

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 8, 2005
Messages
10,083
Re: 2007 Mercruiser 5.0 non-EFI - sometimes stalls after cruising a while, but re-sta

The engine only needs a few thigns to run.

Fuel, ignition and compression. (and correct timing of course.)

You have compression since it ran before.

You should check fuel and ignition before you check the other "stuff"

filter, dist cap, wiring & plugs are things that should be in good condition.


I would look there before going any further.

If the shop cannot get to it in a timely manner maybe you should take it to a different shop if you cannot do it yourself...
 

slongholio

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
May 15, 2009
Messages
31
Re: 2007 Mercruiser 5.0 non-EFI - sometimes stalls after cruising a while, but re-sta

The engine only needs a few thigns to run.

Fuel, ignition and compression. (and correct timing of course.)

You have compression since it ran before.

You should check fuel and ignition before you check the other "stuff"

filter, dist cap, wiring & plugs are things that should be in good condition.


I would look there before going any further.

If the shop cannot get to it in a timely manner maybe you should take it to a different shop if you cannot do it yourself...

I'll be checking the basics tomorrow. I can't really take it to another shop. I keep it in dry storage so I didn't buy a trailer. hmm, dealers are so darn smart, I have a lot of respect for that guy, he must be making a fortune. Good for him.

I'll post back tomorrow after I get done with changing the fuel filter, and at least see if any gas is making it into the carb, (or Sunday - if I end up fixing it I won't be back :) )

I couldn't imagine the wiring or plugs being bad on a two year old boat with only 100 hours and kept in dry storage, and everything looks brand new. But since you said it, I will check it. I asked for advice, and since you gave it I will take it.
 

slongholio

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Joined
May 15, 2009
Messages
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Re: 2007 Mercruiser 5.0 non-EFI - sometimes stalls after cruising a while, but re-sta

Took off air cleaner and flame arrester and fuel is getting in ok. Wires, distributor, etc all looked good. Not much to look at since it's all new.

Interesting was when I took the air cleaner off, there were two wires taped up with electrical tape, and then taped to each other just kind of dangling there underneath it. The wiring in all the rest of the boat it's zip tied so tight you can't even move any wires without cutting the ties. What could these two wires be? And why would they be taped with electrical in such a hot area? They have the leads with the holes on the end of them like they should be screwed down underneath a nut. I'll get some wire nuts and ties and fix them right, the electrical tape was a big gooey mess already.

Guy at the parts desk thought it would need an ignition sensor. I guess I'll see if I can find a manual so I can find out where that is and try it myself. Should have asked him what's it do and where is it, but he was pretty frazzled and I didn't want to take up his time.

Didn't do the fuel filter, since it was starting to rain pretty good, and I was working with it in the water since all the racks were full, and the wind was whipping. Checked that fuel was flowing into the carb anyway, and it was.

I filled up with gas at the marina the day it quit, 33 gallons in a 35 gallon tank. It ran about 4 engine hours that day before it quit, so I'm guessing it's safe to assume the gas is ok, or it would have had problems sooner, or is that not a safe assumption?

I'm still wondering why an ignition sensor would go bad already too. Am I going to have to replace it every two years?
 

slongholio

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Re: 2007 Mercruiser 5.0 non-EFI - sometimes stalls after cruising a while, but re-sta

http://www.iboats.com/Mercruiser_Ignition_Sensors/dm/view_id.269428

The ignition sensor looks like these two lead wires that were electrical taped. But mine has nut connectors instead of barrel connectors. Why would they be electrical taped and not connected to something with a lock nut and washer on top of it.

I'm off Friday so I'll stop in the showroom and ask them to pop the air cleaner off a boat so I can see where they're supposed to be hooked to, and fix it right. No idea how they got electrical taped, I've only had the dealer service my boat since I bought it in 2007. It's new with only 107 hours, so no work has been done other than maintenance, so I'm curios why it would come from Sea Ray electrical taped, instead of locked in place with bionic zip ties like all the other wires and cables.

They even dipped the ends of the all metal hose clamps in that rubber stuff, so the mechanics won't get sliced up while working on the engine.

I'll have to go thank they guy at the service desk for pointing in the right direction. Lucky of me for them to be backed up two weeks so I had time to look at it myself. I'm not to afraid to get my hands dirty, but I prefer to let the pros handle it when I can.

What does this thing do anyway? Can I troubleshoot around it to see if that actually is the problem?
 

boatguya1

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Apr 24, 2009
Messages
444
Re: 2007 Mercruiser 5.0 non-EFI - sometimes stalls after cruising a while, but re-sta

First, Did you check the run/off switch that the kill cord hooks up to? I know it sounds like a dumb question, but I see a couple boats a weekend that won't run due to this. "No charge" I tell them come back when something is really broke.

Past that, There are wires on Merc harnesses that are not used on every boat. It is not at all uncomon two find 2-3 wires ontop of the intake manifold on any given carbed Merc. If the wires for you ignition sensor were not hooked up it wouldn't have run earlier in the day. On a late model merc your ignition sensor wires should be white w/red stripe and white w/green stripe and most likely hooked up with bullet (plug in round) connectors inline in the wires, they come from the distributor.

There is an easy test for the ign sensor. Look it up incase I'm missing something as I'm home and don't have the manual in front of me. There should be power to one of the wires, verify it's there with key on. With a spark checker in place on the ignition strike the other wire from the sensor to ground and off quickly and repeatedly. If you get a spark then but not with the sensor hooked up and the motor cranking the sensor is bad. Look in the manual for this test as I'm probably missing a vital step. I have not done this test in a couple months, so again don't just do it by my memory at a keyboard. The test in the manual is written in a flow chart style so it ought to be easy to follow for a computer guy.

Also there has been shift interupt swich trouble on some boats lately. You can try unplugging the two bullet connectors to the switch and plugging the motor side connectors together to bypass the switch. If it starts and runs then there is a problem with the switch or leads. Do not drive the boat this way accept in an emergency, it will not want to shift out of gear with the interrupter switch out of the circuit.

Hope this helps,

James
 

boatguya1

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Messages
444
Re: 2007 Mercruiser 5.0 non-EFI - sometimes stalls after cruising a while, but re-sta

Sorry, re-read initial post and see you checked the kill switch.

James
 

boatguya1

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Messages
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Re: 2007 Mercruiser 5.0 non-EFI - sometimes stalls after cruising a while, but re-sta

One more thing, when you pull the old fuel filter off dump the contents into a clear container to see what you have. That filter is also a water seperator but will only hold so much water prior to sending it on through the system. If there is water in your carb it's not going to run. When you dump the contents if there is water it will sperate in the container from the fuel.

James
 

slongholio

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May 15, 2009
Messages
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Re: 2007 Mercruiser 5.0 non-EFI - sometimes stalls after cruising a while, but re-sta

Thanks guys. I'll check this all out on Friday and post back with what I find out.

I can't get down there in time after work to do much in the evenings, but I took Friday off just to get in there and try to figure it out while parts is still open.

Couldn't get the fuel filter off last time, didn't have a long enough socket wrench but I'll bring it next time, it's was on really tight. If I hadn't tried it myself, I probably would have said it has easy access, ever heard that one before? Well it does as long as you don't need to put a cap filter wrench on it and apply any torque. ;)

I'll bring a jar to put the fuel in and check it. And some wire nuts and zip ties for the "stray" wires.

I guess water means next I get to take the carb apart. Oh yay, first time for everything - hehe.

And I'm going to pick up a manual, before I go touching wires together, since I don't know what I'm doing really without it. Hopefully they're in stock.
 
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slongholio

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May 15, 2009
Messages
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Re: 2007 Mercruiser 5.0 non-EFI - sometimes stalls after cruising a while, but re-sta

So they called today. It is the integrated control module. about 450 or so for the parts and 250 or so for the labor.

Interesting a Google search turns up no results for "integrated control module"

One, and the part has a one year warranty, so I guess I'll budget an additional $400 a year for maintenance.

Stupid Sea Ray and Mercruiser. Where can I get me a boat with a Honda engine.
 

slongholio

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May 15, 2009
Messages
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Re: 2007 Mercruiser 5.0 non-EFI - sometimes stalls after cruising a while, but re-sta

They replaced the ICM. Took it out all day Saturday and all appears well for now. Just posting in case it helps someone else. They were kind enough to give me $150 off the part, so the total bill went down to $650. I'm still upset about having to replace such an expensive part on such a new boat though, and still worry that I'll have this recurring expense every 2-3 years.
 
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