21' Bayliner Trophy Opinions

[scott11]

Hi guys,
Im currently in the market for a new boat and I've been looking in to a early 90's bayliner trophy. I have a few in mind that have been really well maintained and in awesome shape. They both have 140 I/O in them but I was wondering if this motor would be underpowered in a boat this size? My main boating is trolling on Georgian Bay with the occasional cruise. Ideally id like to have the 4.3L but I have yet to find a 21' trophy for sale with one. Thanks in advance for the input guys.

 

[crabby captain john]

Re: 21' Bayliner Trophy Opinions

In the '80s Bayliner earned a bad rep and have done nothing to change it. Some buyers are lucky, many not so, then there are a couple that bought 2012 models on a thread here with wet wood transoms already. Bayliners are an 'entry level' (meaning cheap) boat. That is why you find few with other than lowest priced motor that will move the boat. Some feel it is adequate and others find them underpowered. it's a gamble but so is every boat of that vintage. Find what you like, get a survey, and have a mechanic check the motor AFTER taking it for a sea trial.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 21' Bayliner Trophy Opinions

Bayliner, Trophy, and Maxum are all separate brands manufactured by the same company as Mercury and Force: AMF Brunswick. It is as incorrect to say Bayliner Trophy as it is to say Mercury Force. (although for a couple of years there were Force engines using Mercury parts)

That said, of the three brands, Bayliner is the entry level hull while Trophy and Maxum are higher end models. Trophy is most usually set up as a walk around cuddy outboard, targeted more toward the fishing crowd.

So: What are you looking at? A bayliner with the 4 cylinder engine?

 

[dingbat]

Re: 21' Bayliner Trophy Opinions

A friend of mine had a 2002, 2152 Trophy with a 4.3. The power was ok, although I could run circles around him with a 175hp outboard on my 21'. I can't imagine that hull with a 140

 

[scott11]

Re: 21' Bayliner Trophy Opinions

Thanks for the feedback so far guys. I have also read some nasty things about bayliners in the past but also positives. I get that they are an entry level boat which is quite fine for my intentions. A big thing that i like with the trophy is the hard top. The one im interested in has just recently had a marine survey and seems to have been really taken care of. I like the idea of the 4 cylinder for fuel mileage while trolling but it would suck to buy a boat that struggled to cruise.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: 21' Bayliner Trophy Opinions

I wouldn't buy an early 90's Bayliner(includes Trophy).

Bayliner, Trophy, and Maxum are all separate brands manufactured by the same company as Mercury and Force: AMF Brunswick.

Brunswick makes the boats...there is no such company as AMF Brunswick.

 

[dingbat]

Re: 21' Bayliner Trophy Opinions

Thanks for the feedback so far guys. I have also read some nasty things about bayliners in the past but also positives. I get that they are an entry level boat which is quite fine for my intentions. A big thing that i like with the trophy is the hard top. The one im interested in has just recently had a marine survey and seems to have been really taken care of. I like the idea of the 4 cylinder for fuel mileage while trolling but it would suck to buy a boat that struggled to cruise.

Your fooling yourself with your fuel mileage ideas.

It takes X amount of HP to push a boat at a given speed. 1 HP = 1.414 btu/sec, there is roughly 111,800 btu in a gallon of E-10. Unless you come up with some magic formula, both motors (assume same technology) will use the same amount of fuel to perform the same amount of work.

FWIW: Hardtops on a 21' boat are problematic which is why you see few, if any, factory hardtops on a boat that size. Big wind sail, requires HP to push, a lot of weight well above the center of gravity of a deep/Mod V hull which has some interesting behavioral characteristics to begin with

 

[Fireman431]

Re: 21' Bayliner Trophy Opinions

A lot of talk on here about the problems associated with boats that the complainers have probable never owned. True, early model Bayliners were troublesome (which I owned) due to poor construction. I had a 20' bowrider with a VP aq140 and the performance was average at best (no speedometer though). Trophys are a higher end model and the fit and construction is better than the standard Bayliner. I owned a 2002 WA cuddy and it was one of the most solid, well running boats I've had. It was powered with a Mercury 150 Saltwater Series 2 stroke and would run 50 MPH without trim tabs! Trophy also produced a CC model with better performance due to lighter weight vessel. They also equipped the same boats with a Force 120, which I never owned, but I have spoken with people who did have them and they indicated it worked, but was underpowered for their tastes.

All things being equal, when you're looking at a boat of that vintage, the maintenance has a LOT more to do with it than the actual model of boat. There are 80's Bayliners still on the water today and there are 2005 Bertram's sitting on the ocean floor. Don't listen to one person or one story that people retell because they heard it from a neighbors friend.

And was said earlier, the parent company Bayliner builds the entry level boats (a lot of manufacturers do), they also build the Trophy line, as well as the Meridian Yacht line. If you're not sure what you're looking for, get a survey.

 

[dingbat]

Re: 21' Bayliner Trophy Opinions

I owned a 2002 WA cuddy and it was one of the most solid, well running boats I've had. It was powered with a Mercury 150 Saltwater Series 2 stroke and would run 50 MPH without trim tabs!

Must have been running down hill with hurricane force winds at your back.

The manufactures list that combo at 40 mph. Boat Test came up with 39.8 mph in their tests.

 

[crabby captain john]

Re: 21' Bayliner Trophy Opinions

Fireman ~~ as I stated Bayliner EARNED the bad rep and have done little to nothing to change. As I stated some owners are very happy with them but there are 2 owners of 2012 Bayliners with wet wood in the transom. As I stated not all are bad and if you get it cheap enough it may be worth the gamble. As I stated the OP should have ANY boat surveyed and the motor checked by a mechanic. We will see if he is a gambler or not. The dice is loaded toward the house, not the OP.

 

[Fireman431]

Re: 21' Bayliner Trophy Opinions

Must have been running down hill with hurricane force winds at your back.

The manufactures list that combo at 40 mph. Boat Test came up with 39.8 mph in their tests.

49.7 mph. GPS doesn't lie. Weighted right and propped correctly.

 

[Sea Stomper]

Re: 21' Bayliner Trophy Opinions

Your fooling yourself with your fuel mileage ideas.

It takes X amount of HP to push a boat at a given speed. 1 HP = 1.414 btu/sec, there is roughly 111,800 btu in a gallon of E-10. Unless you come up with some magic formula, both motors (assume same technology) will use the same amount of fuel to perform the same amount of work.

Probably true (your "same technology" caveat) but only to a certain degree. The amount of work produced per specific volume of fuel is highly variable expressed in the Specific Fuel Consumption specification. As you said, if you assume the same technology, the burn will likely be very similar.

In mechanical engineering terms, different engines can have different "specific fuel consumption" numbers and can produce very different horsepowers for the same fuel burn. Specific fuel consumption is number of pounds burned per hour per single horsepower. Specific fuel consumption numbers go up, meaning mileage goes down, when very large engines are used to produce low horsepower at low combustion temperatures. Specific fuel consumption goes down (mileage numbers go up) quite a bit when smaller engines, running hot combustion temperatures with high technology fuel delivery systems, produce larger horsepower ratings. The limits of the latter result from the quality of the fuel and the metallurgy of the combustion zone. Other factors include the quality of the atomization of fuel and flame propagation behavior from the ignition point, and "Brake Mean Effective Pressure" which is a mean average of the combustion event pressure that results from the amount of air and fuel in the charge combined with the maximum compression achieved in the compression stroke. High BMEP's with high combustion temperatures result in low SFC numbers but are limited by uncontrolled detonation of the charge which is an uncontrolled explosion as opposed to a nice controlled flame front travelling out from the ignition point. Best SFC numbers (most efficient burn) result from a lot of engineering, experience and technological advancements.

Specific fuel consumption. It's a very important number in internal combustion engines whether they be reciprocating piston engines or continuous flow gas turbine engines. It's what drives the use of ceramic coatings and ceramic components in high end high performance turbofan gas turbine engines that power the most modern airliners and fighters. It's the one number that has driven technological advancements in aviation engines from the radial engines of the thirties with their high SFC numbers through the sixties, to the very highly efficient turbofans of today with their very low SFC numbers. And I'm pretty certain that the specific fuel consumption numbers of the 4 stroke and 2 stroke Etec engines of today are much lower than they were for 1960's and 70's two stroke outboards.