25' Bertram repower

tootoot

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Sep 11, 2005
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132
I have an opportunity to get a project 25' Bertram that needs stringers and transom work I was thinking of putting twin ford 302's bumped to 250 hp and put in alpha gen 1 outdrives. I had a Bertram with twin 140's. Does anyone think 500 hp will be too much. Im looking for about 50 kts. I will beef up the transom.
 

Bondo

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Apr 17, 2002
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71,082
Re: 25' Bertram repower

There are No Parts Available to bolt a Ford 302, V8,.. In Front of an Alpha 1..........<br /><br />You Either have to use the Old Pre-Alpha,.. Model 1 drive,.........<br />Or,......<br />A Chevy Engine............<br /><br />I'm Sure that a 25" Bertram will Fly with that kind of Power,............<br />I Wouldn't want to be the 1 Buying the Fuel though............<br /><br />I'd build it up as a Single Engine..........
 

stevens

Senior Chief Petty Officer
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May 4, 2005
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799
Re: 25' Bertram repower

Why not put one big diesel engine in there, coupled to a Volvo duoprop or a Bravo 3 instead?
 

snapperbait

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Aug 20, 2002
Messages
5,754
Re: 25' Bertram repower

My opinion..<br /><br />#1... Twin smallblock chevy/mercruisers.. base model carb motors = 260 hp...<br /><br />#2... 500 hp isn'too much... (probably not enuff, for 50 knots) 25' Bertram's alot of boat to push, deeeeep V and all...<br /><br />FWIW... I had the opprotunity to run and fish out of a 25 Bertram with twin 318 chryslers connected to v-drives... Nice set up.. the engines placement with no big doghouse at the transom made a nice set up for fishing..
 

tootoot

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Re: 25' Bertram repower

What are my options regarding the diesel? I like the idea but not very familiar with horsepower/torque relationships. Will I be able to get the speed out of a diesel? What engine(s) could I consider?
 

stevens

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May 4, 2005
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799
Re: 25' Bertram repower

Two sites that may be of help as regards diesel engines:<br /><br /> http://www.cmdmarine.com/recreationalsterndrives.html <br /><br />and<br /><br /> http://www.volvo.com/volvopenta/na/en-us/marineengines/repowering/ <br /><br />Modern diesels are amazingly powerful, and most boats above 22-24 feet over here have diesel engines. Even the 21' in my picture does 36 knots with the smallest Mercury Cummins 1.7L 120 hp turbodiesel.<br /><br />Here's a side-by-side comparison done by Popular Mechanics Magazine:<br /><br /> http://www.popularmechanics.com/outdoors/boating/1277216.html <br /><br />Here's an ad for a great 30' Hydrolift boat that does 43 knots with a 270 hp Yanmar diesel engine: link. The same boat is good for 60+ knots with a twin installation. More info about these boats on this link .
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
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Mar 22, 2005
Messages
22,783
Re: 25' Bertram repower

Originally posted by tootoot:<br /> What are my options regarding the diesel? I like the idea but not very familiar with horsepower/torque relationships. Will I be able to get the speed out of a diesel? What engine(s) could I consider?
Horsepower is still horsepower. Don't get too hung up on torque in a marine application, very common mistake. Prop load curves are pretty linear so a high peak torque value only does one thing, decrease time to plane if you hammer it. If you usually run a boat of that size up slowly in RPM then a diesel will have very little effect positive or negative on performance. Weight considerations are an issue but not as bad as they used to be by a long shot. They are still heavier bhp to weight ratio at max ratings of either. Cost is a LOT higher.<br /><br />Fuel efficiency could be 30% better than with gasoline technology. This is a little bit of a complicated equation to figure out exactly how much better your fuel $ will be. The fuels are not equal in energy value (diesel has more) and they are not equal in cost per gallon (diesel is more) and the fuel efficiency across the prop load curve is of course variable, but the gasoline's engine relationship is different than diesel, they don't track up the curve equally . . . <br /><br />Obviously you would want to pay the difference back in fuel cost savings. If you only run 100 hours a year it won't happen . . . ;) I can help evaluate the payback if you are serious. Sounds like a real fun project . . . I love Bertys :cool:
 

stevens

Senior Chief Petty Officer
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May 4, 2005
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799
Re: 25' Bertram repower

Different picture over here. Here they usually say that diesels get 30-50% better mileage than gas engines. With diesel fuel also costing 30% less than gas, the equation is much more favorable towards diesels. Also much better resale value, and much easier to sell, especially when fuel prices are high. Finally, great range, pleasant noise levels and great pulling power at lower RPMs. But, yes, higher initial cost, especially when comparing with rebuilt gas engines. Might not be worth it in the US.
 

tootoot

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Sep 11, 2005
Messages
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Re: 25' Bertram repower

Man. You guys are great. Super info. Thanks alot. I hope to keep a running photo gallery goin. Other than the power train, I'm gonna try to build her like an aircraft. Light strong. These deisels that are electronic controlled, are they lige gas engines where if the mod goes out you are stuck? should I go with a deisel that is mechanically controlled?
 

QC

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Mar 22, 2005
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22,783
Re: 25' Bertram repower

Stevens,<br /><br />I understand and discounted the resale which is a real factor. Same thing though, the new buyer won't get his money back either . . . <br /><br />Mileage per gallon is not the same thing as efficiency. Diesel fuel has more BTUs per gallon, so it should go further. Basically if you equalize the diesel and gasoline engine for BTUs then the diesel runs 20 - 30% more efficiently. It is the only right way to compare the technologies from a pure engineering sense. The other stuff is more tax treatment and economics not efficiency of the platform . . .<br /><br />BTW, I absolutely love diesels, they have been my entire 28 year career AND I lust for a twin screw diesel boat . . . :D :D <br /><br />tootoot,<br /><br />Yes sometimes an ECM will strand you, but the new electronics are VERY hardened, probably more reliable than mechanical now. There is nothing wrong with a good mechanically governed engine although the electronic engines will be better on fuel and diagnostics. Mechanical will be less expensive, but probably a poorer power to weight ratio.
 

pod184

Cadet
Joined
Jul 4, 2005
Messages
21
Re: 25' Bertram repower

To complicate matters a bit more, in some states in the US, diesel not used on roads is not subject to road taxes. This makes the cost of fuel a fair bit less, where I am from at least.
 

tootoot

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Sep 11, 2005
Messages
132
Re: 25' Bertram repower

What about using farm deisel in a boat? It's not on the road!!!!
 

andymach23

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Mar 9, 2005
Messages
156
Re: 25' Bertram repower

Diesel is also alot safer than gas. It will not explode as eaisly as gas. I have heard you can throw a match into a barrel of diesel and it will just go out. <br /><br />It means you are not out on the ocean on a potential bomb.<br /><br />Diesel engines also have less relience on electrics so suit the marine environment better although modern engines are catching up with electronics.
 

Richard Petersen

Senior Chief Petty Officer
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Dec 17, 2004
Messages
778
Re: 25' Bertram repower

There is 1 possible + or -. The constant lowering of gasoline quality I keep hearing about.--------- A. Is it really true?-------- B. Is Diesel fuel going to, or also suffering also. My 5.0L gasser has run great with no real changes.
 

Steamboat

Seaman
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May 10, 2004
Messages
74
Re: 25' Bertram repower

My brother repowered his 20' Bertram moppie from the 6 cyl. 165 HP mercruiser to a V-6 Volvo duoprop (205 HP???) and gets great fuel economy and decent speed 44 knots with full fuel (60 gallons) and 4 people. The duoprop really seems to make a difference on acceleration and short planing time. Boat runs whisper quite as well.
 
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