4.3 efi tbi throttle question

Kallen928009

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May 8, 2021
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11
I have a 79 Grady white 212 “21.5’ cuddy” last year boat would jump out of the water 2200 I was out of the water on plane doing about 20-25mph, 3500 was around 40-45, wot 4650-4700 was around 52-55 this year wot is still around the 4700 mark yet only getting 34mph and sluggish out of the hole new plugs wires cap rotor coil just like every year. I did install a new prop just to have a new one and a spare same brand diameter and pitch quicksilver 15.5x 18 what could it be? I am getting good spark at every plug fuel psi is good no loss of coolant or signs of unburnt fuel on plugs or lack there of good compression all cylinders
 

Scott Danforth

Grumpy Vintage Moderator still playing with boats
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Jul 23, 2011
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50,224
Did you do a compression test? Post the numbers

Did you test fuel pressure? Post the numbers

Did you check the fuel filter for water?
 

alldodge

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42,535
wot 4650-4700 was around 52-55 this year wot is still around the 4700 mark yet only getting 34mph
Either something is wrong with the speed-o or the prop is cavating.

If motor was down on HP it would not be able to reach WOT rpm.
 

ESGWheel

Chief Petty Officer
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Aug 29, 2015
Messages
534
Does this prop have a center hub that can ‘let go’? (Shaft spins but prop less so). While I would expect to rapidly deteriorate, check to see if you have a spun hub.

If not and given the motor is still stong, only other factors that come to mind are weight or drag. Weight due to water intrusion or drag to dirty hull.
 

Kallen928009

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Joined
May 8, 2021
Messages
11
Did you do a compression test? Post the numbers

Did you test fuel pressure? Post the numbers

Did you check the fuel filter for water?
Compression test
1-152
2-148
3-151
4-153
5-143
6-147
Fuel pressure 31psi at 2500 rpm
Fuel filter/water separator all fuel no water
 

Kallen928009

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May 8, 2021
Messages
11
Does this prop have a center hub that can ‘let go’? (Shaft spins but prop less so). While I would expect to rapidly deteriorate, check to see if you have a spun hub.

If not and given the motor is still stong, only other factors that come to mind are weight or drag. Weight due to water intrusion or drag to dirty hull.
Prop does have a Flo-torque hub brand new that was my first thought as well pulled prop and checked no signs of hub spun
 

Kallen928009

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May 8, 2021
Messages
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My next thought was I’m not sure how the drive coupler exactly works if it’s kind of like a hub in a prop or what but could that be spinning some at higher rpm causing loss of speed or would that be something I’d most definitely know or something that would go KABOOM or could it have a slight free spin not fully blowing up? Is there a way to check that
 

dubs283

Vice Admiral
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Jul 27, 2005
Messages
5,332
52-55 mph in a 21.5 ft boat powered by a 4.3 V6 seems a bit high to me.

My experience with Grady White boats is they are built a bit on the heavy side with design geared more for stability and offshore capability rather than speed performance

Your investigation has yet to yield any issues with the engine or drive. My wag is you have a boat issue, not an engine/drive issue

Dirty boat hull, waterlogged hull, overloading/misloaded gear/passengers, etc...

Interestingly, 34 mph roughly calculates to 55 kph, perhaps your GPS was reading kph on prior runs?
 

Kallen928009

Cadet
Joined
May 8, 2021
Messages
11
52-55 mph in a 21.5 ft boat powered by a 4.3 V6 seems a bit high to me.

My experience with Grady White boats is they are built a bit on the heavy side with design geared more for stability and offshore capability rather than speed performance

Your investigation has yet to yield any issues with the engine or drive. My wag is you have a boat issue, not an engine/drive issue

Dirty boat hull, waterlogged hull, overloading/misloaded gear/passengers, etc...

Interestingly, 34 mph roughly calculates to 55 kph, perhaps your GPS was reading kph on prior runs?
Put boat on a scale with trailer and empty trailer on scale it came out to 3120 factory specs say 2850 for boat weight and I did have some electronics In stuff in boat so I don’t think waterlogged always gets trailered and bottom paint is not perfect but it wasn’t perfect last year either even ran empty besides me and the electronics same results as well as my equipment is always been set 1 screen knots 1 screen mph always GPS SOG as I do have a few marinas/launches in my area with speed limits in knots and I’m not smart enough to do the quick math
 

Cdn20valve

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Joined
Aug 10, 2015
Messages
47
Put boat on a scale with trailer and empty trailer on scale it came out to 3120 factory specs say 2850 for boat weight and I did have some electronics In stuff in boat so I don’t think waterlogged always gets trailered and bottom paint is not perfect but it wasn’t perfect last year either even ran empty besides me and the electronics same results as well as my equipment is always been set 1 screen knots 1 screen mph always GPS SOG as I do have a few marinas/launches in my area with speed limits in knots and I’m not smart enough to do the quick math
Check timing. is It possible the knock sensor is pulling timing?
 

dingbat

Supreme Mariner
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Nov 20, 2001
Messages
16,313
52-55 mph in a 21.5 ft boat powered by a 4.3 V6 seems a bit high to me.
Yep…..Ran a Grady 206 (same boat but newer) with a 200 hp outboard for a number of years. Upper 30’s at best…..with the wind at my back.
 

ESGWheel

Chief Petty Officer
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Aug 29, 2015
Messages
534
Kallen,
Boy this is a headscratcher. Here is a recap to help me understand what I think is your situation followed by a recommendation.

Issue: performance of the boat from last season to this is horrible, hole shot is sluggish and top end not what it used to be. Never mind what the gauges are saying, you know it and feel it, its different like a badly slipping clutch on a manual car. Only change from last year is the prop was same Dia and Pitch. And based on suggestions, the following have been checked:
  • Engine: compression and all else good. Runs smoothly up to WOT. In fact, the engine starts, idles and behaves as it always did. It purrs like a kitten, all seems good. Check.
  • Extra Weight, due to possible waterlogged. While possible it’s not probable due to radical difference over the off season and it’s on a trailer. But checked the weight anyway and in line with spec. Check.
  • Extra Drag, due to hull fouling. Again, while possible it’s not probable due to radical difference over the off season and it’s on a trailer. So checked the underside and all is good, no delaminating materials, etc. Check.
  • Prop Flo-torque Hub. Prop hub checked good. Check.
  • Drive Coupler. While you raised this as a potential, I was only aware of their function but have no experience with them, so started doing some research. As you suspect its is a coupling device that has a metal tube in the middle to accept the drive shaft spline, which in turn is molded to a ball of rubber, which in turn is surrounded by and bonded to a metal ‘cup and plate’ that bolts to the flywheel. All this adds up to a device to account for miniscule misalignments (nothing is perfect) and engine vibrations. Can they fail? You bet. But their failure is normally accompanied by smell of burning rubber and lots of smoke. Additionally, while I do not have any experience in this, I would bet that once it started failing it would rapidly fail completely under any significant load. Back to the slipping clutch analogy > you may be able to idle your way down the street but try to get on the freeway and you’ll sit there. But you had no smoke or smell, and you can still get around. Hmmm.
Logically it seems as if all is exhausted, so I am going to suggest a different logical approach: your new prop. From last season to this season the only thing that changed was the prop. While you intended to put on the same D & P perhaps its not due to mispackaging or some such.

Thus, my suggestion is to switch back to your old prop with a brand new Flo-torque Hub (I understand the current one is good and normally only do one change at a time for troubleshooting, but humor me and please change it). Also, with white paint, put a line on the outer hub of the prop that lines up with the rounded end of the cotter pin. Idea is to see if there is some slippage issue between the prop and its shaft even if all looks good.

Launch boat, have fun (I hope!) and report back.

Good luck! :)
 

Kallen928009

Cadet
Joined
May 8, 2021
Messages
11
Kallen,
Boy this is a headscratcher. Here is a recap to help me understand what I think is your situation followed by a recommendation.

Issue: performance of the boat from last season to this is horrible, hole shot is sluggish and top end not what it used to be. Never mind what the gauges are saying, you know it and feel it, its different like a badly slipping clutch on a manual car. Only change from last year is the prop was same Dia and Pitch. And based on suggestions, the following have been checked:
  • Engine: compression and all else good. Runs smoothly up to WOT. In fact, the engine starts, idles and behaves as it always did. It purrs like a kitten, all seems good. Check.
  • Extra Weight, due to possible waterlogged. While possible it’s not probable due to radical difference over the off season and it’s on a trailer. But checked the weight anyway and in line with spec. Check.
  • Extra Drag, due to hull fouling. Again, while possible it’s not probable due to radical difference over the off season and it’s on a trailer. So checked the underside and all is good, no delaminating materials, etc. Check.
  • Prop Flo-torque Hub. Prop hub checked good. Check.
  • Drive Coupler. While you raised this as a potential, I was only aware of their function but have no experience with them, so started doing some research. As you suspect its is a coupling device that has a metal tube in the middle to accept the drive shaft spline, which in turn is molded to a ball of rubber, which in turn is surrounded by and bonded to a metal ‘cup and plate’ that bolts to the flywheel. All this adds up to a device to account for miniscule misalignments (nothing is perfect) and engine vibrations. Can they fail? You bet. But their failure is normally accompanied by smell of burning rubber and lots of smoke. Additionally, while I do not have any experience in this, I would bet that once it started failing it would rapidly fail completely under any significant load. Back to the slipping clutch analogy > you may be able to idle your way down the street but try to get on the freeway and you’ll sit there. But you had no smoke or smell, and you can still get around. Hmmm.
Logically it seems as if all is exhausted, so I am going to suggest a different logical approach: your new prop. From last season to this season the only thing that changed was the prop. While you intended to put on the same D & P perhaps its not due to mispackaging or some such.

Thus, my suggestion is to switch back to your old prop with a brand new Flo-torque Hub (I understand the current one is good and normally only do one change at a time for troubleshooting, but humor me and please change it). Also, with white paint, put a line on the outer hub of the prop that lines up with the rounded end of the cotter pin. Idea is to see if there is some slippage issue between the prop and its shaft even if all looks good.

Launch boat, have fun (I hope!) and report back.

Good luck! :)
Yea prop and hub is the only new thing same diameter/pitch brand model and did have the local prop shop check pitch old and new to verify that previous owner didn’t have the prop repitched as the local prop shop can go up or down 2” from factory on aluminum props they were the same cupping was same but I will throw on the old prop (didn’t even thing about it) and check and get back to you only reason prop was changed was to get the nice black back instead of the worn old aluminum from wear I’ll try the old hub kit that I left in the old prop new hub kit and get a 3rd just to test heck what’s 60$ more if I can figure the issue out without sending to the shop that knows this boat top to bottom as the old owner brought it to them for 25 years for everything but they cost 250 an hour
 
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