4.3 Harmonic Balancer Question

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Captianloud

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Those of you who have read my previous posts know that I am repowering my 94 Merc 4.3 V6 with a 95 4.3 Vortec (non balance shaft engine) <br />I put together a site about this.<br /> http://users.adelphia.net/~chrisradvanyi/ <br />I have made some serious mods to the engine. <br />I know I am having problems getting pictures up on the site but I am a much better mechanic than webmaster. But.......................<br />Here is the question. As I am nearing completion of this project which should be really kick ***............ this question is probably geared to the sunbird fellow with the 4.3 <br />The harmonic balancers are different as are the flywheels(starter rings). The starter ring coupler and harmonci balancer off the mercruiser 4.3 (balance shaft engine) are different than the starter gear/harmonic balancer off the chevy van (vortec non balance shaft) so....... I noticed a significant difference between the harmonic balancers: one has an obvious weight offset (balance shaft), the other appears to be balanced (vortec 4.3) I guess what I am getting at is are the offset harmonic balancer and the off set flywheel set together to counter the second order harmonic wave set up by the crank in motion? what happens of I use the auto hamonic balancer with the marine starter ring?flywheel? (remember the marine harmonic balancer has an obvious weight offset) Sunbird43 when you did yours what did you do here????????<br /><br />Again please no speculation..... if you dont know what your talking about then #(&@(&$(&(@#)&#)<br />If you dont understand my question please ask for clarification...........<br /><br /><br />Thanks again Capt....
 
Bondo

Bondo

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Re: 4.3 Harmonic Balancer Question

If you dont understand my question please ask for clarification...........
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What are you Calling the,.. The starter ring coupler ????? I've Never even Heard of it......<br /><br />IF I'm reading this Right,.......<br /><br />NO,......<br /><br />If you Mix,+ Match the Flywheels,+ Harmonic Balancers,.... <br />Between a Balance Shafted Motor,+ a Non-Balance Shaft motor,.......<br />It'll Shake itself Appart,.......<br />Long Before it Ever "Kicks Arse"........... ;)
 
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Captianloud

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Re: 4.3 Harmonic Balancer Question

Perhaps this is a better way to ask the question. Is there a difference between the flywheel from the balance shaft engine different than the balance shaft from the non-balanced shaft engine? <br />Did the part numbers change throught 1990 to 1994?<br />Capt
 
Bondo

Bondo

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Re: 4.3 Harmonic Balancer Question

Originally posted by Captianloud:<br /> Perhaps this is a better way to ask the question. <br /><br />Is there a difference between the flywheel from the balance shaft engine different than the balance shaft from the non-balanced shaft engine? <br /> <br />Did the part numbers change throught 1990 to 1994?<br />Capt
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Ayuh,........ Well,......<br />The Non-Balanced Shaft Engine,................................Wouldn't have a Balance-Shaft,.. At All.......... :D <br /><br /><br />Are the Flywheels Different,.????<br />Ayuh,.......<br />Yup,... Sure Are..........<br /><br /><br />This would be Alot Easier if you just Explain,... Exactly What the Issues are that you're trying to overcome with your Update..........<br /><br />That'll put it into a Much Better prespective for most of us.........<br /><br /> WHY ,.... Do you want to Mix & Match your Parts,.?????<br /><br />And,..........1 more Thing,.......<br />
I have made some serious mods to the engine.
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Let me in on Exactly What you've Done,......... Some "Hot Rodding Tricks" will Really do Wonders for a Boat motor...........<br />'Course,........... Some, Sound Good,+ End up co$ting you a Brand New Motor............... :rolleyes:
 
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Captianloud

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Re: 4.3 Harmonic Balancer Question

Well, when sifting through the local junkyard, I couldn't find a balance shaft engine which was worth pulling. I knew the earlier mercruisers didnt have one, and sunbird43 said when he repowered his he used a non-balanced shaft motor.<br />So since here I am with a completely rebiult non balance shaft 4.3, just about ready to drop into the hull, I noticed the difference in the harmonic balancers and got to thinking " I wonder if the flywheel and harmonic balancer are different with the balance shaft engine." I have the harmonic balancers but the flywheels are way different, the flywheel to the non balance shaft looks like this http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CHEV...ryZ33732QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem <br />by the way that is not mine but its looks the same <br /><br />So here are my options: (whats your opinion)<br /><br />1) take the marine flywheel and the automotive to a machine shop and have them balanced the same.<br />2) buy a pressure plate for a manual transmission for that motor from the autoparts store and see if the shaft coupling will bolt up. <br /><br />What other options do I have.<br /><br />There is a list of what hop ups I did here http://users.adelphia.net/~chrisradvanyi/
 
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Captianloud

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Re: 4.3 Harmonic Balancer Question

I should have phrased question one differently<br /><br />1) take the marine and automotive to a machine shop and have the marine cut to match the balance of the automotive.
 
Reel Poor

Reel Poor

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Re: 4.3 Harmonic Balancer Question

Captin....Like Bondo said, the flywheels and balancers are specific for each engine and cannot be mixed, switched, or swaped between these two engines in any kind of way, shape, form, or fashion. You need a flywheel and a balancer specific for your non balance shaft engine. These engines are externally balanced (note the wieght on flywheel and cutout on balancer). The "flywheel" you showed in the link to ebay is a "flexplate" and not used in your marine application. You need a "flywheel", which is the type used with an automotive manuel transmission setup. Again, specific to your non balance shaft engine, i.e. with counter weight.<br /><br /> EDIT: There is some incorrect information in this post that has been addressed later in this thread.
 
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Buttanic

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Re: 4.3 Harmonic Balancer Question

The flywheel in the ebay picture is an automatic transmission flex plate, it will not work in a boat,it is not heavy enough, as soon as you would put the boat in gear the engine would stall. What you will need is a flywheel from a non balance shaft engine that had a manual transmission.
 
Bondo

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Re: 4.3 Harmonic Balancer Question

Well Capt,......... I see a Few Issues,........<br /><br />1st,...... You've Really got to get on the Same Page as Everybody who's Trying to Help,.......<br />In other Words,.......<br />You've got to figure out WHAT the Different PARTS are Called..........<br /><br />The 2nd is already noted by Reel Poor,+ Buttanic,........<br />You've Got to have a Cast Iron Flywheel,..........<br />Not a Stamped Steel Flexplate........<br /><br />Which Starter is your choosen block Drilled For,....... Are the Boltholes, Straight accross from each other(12"flywheel), <br />Or Staggered(14" flywheel),.???<br />Once you've figured out This Much,.......<br /><br />A Cast Iron Flywheel from a GM Truck,.. Of the right Vintage,+ Diameter,...... Will Already be Drilled to accept the Engine Coupler.......<br />In other words,..... The Clutch Pressure Plate uses the Same Holes as the Engine Coupler for an Alpha of Your Vintage........<br /><br />3rd,......In your link,.. You state that you're building a 1995 motor to replace your 1994,.......<br />And, that your original motor has Vortec Heads,............<br />Well,......... Vortec Heads Weren't Introduced until 1996,........ Neither of Your motors are True Vortec motors,......<br />Granted,.. Chevy Called some of their motors "Vortec" on the valve covers,......<br />But,... The Fast Burn Vortec Heads were Not installed on Either of these motors...........<br /><br />4th,.....Ayuh,... Well,... I've got Things To Do this afternoon,......<br />But,.......<br />I'll be Back to go over Some More things I've noticed about Your Build.......<br />Especially where You're Thinking you're going to build Mucho Horsepower with a 2bbl. Carb......<br />Just the Jump to a 4bbl. Carb. is Good for nearly 30hp...........<br /><br />I Shall Return.......................<br /> ;)
 
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Captianloud

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Re: 4.3 Harmonic Balancer Question

See if this forum would allow pictures it would make this WWWWAAAAYYYYY easier!!!!!<br /><br />I appreicate your patience and help. <br /><br />In fact the marine pressure plate/ flywheel (balance shaft engine) IS externally balanced......... In the casting it is weighted in the same exact location as the flex plate from the auto (the casting has NOTICABLLY more meat in this area.).......The harmonic balancer from the marine balance shaft engine IS externallly balanced =(noticably offest weight in the casting) . Where the auto harmonic balancer appears to be "balanced". <br /> <br />The starter bolts are staggered. But my block will accept either staggered or straight across. Yes, the starter bolts right up. <br /><br />BOTH valve covers have three bolts, in the center, are made of plastic and have "V6 Vortec" molded into them. That why I figured they were both Vortec engines. <br /><br />On the site I listed in the forum I clearly state this engine came with a Weber (Carter) 4bbl carburator. Which is what I plan to use. <br /><br />Do you know when the balance shaft engine was introduced in automotive? everyone says 95-96, but this seems to be just a guess and both engines seem to have been used in production simultaneously......
 
Bondo

Bondo

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Re: 4.3 Harmonic Balancer Question

See if this forum would allow pictures it would make this WWWWAAAAYYYYY easier!!!!!
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Are you using the little posting window at the bottom of the thread page,..???...<br />If So,.....<br />Look Lower on the page,+ Click "Post a Reply" button,....<br />There's Url,+ Quote,+ Picture posting buttons There.......As well as Many other Options.......<br />You'll need to have the picture on a Hosting website,+ Hot Link it to your posts..........<br />
In fact the marine pressure plate/ flywheel (balance shaft engine) IS externally balanced......... In the casting it is weighted in the same exact location as the flex plate from the auto (the casting has NOTICABLLY more meat in this area.).......The harmonic balancer from the marine balance shaft engine IS externallly balanced =(noticably offest weight in the casting) . Where the auto harmonic balancer appears to be "balanced".
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Ya Da Ya Da Ya Da Ya Da..........<br /><br />All I can say is,.........<br />Don't Mix & Match them...........<br /><br />There's an Obvious Difference......<br />What, Exactly the Difference Is,... I Don't KNOW.......<br />But,.....<br />I DO Know,...... NOT to Mix & Match them,...... Without having the rotating Assembley Spun on a Balancer..........<br /><br />There Is the Chance that they're the Same,..........<br />Do you want to use your Brand New Motor to Find Out,..????...
 
Reel Poor

Reel Poor

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Re: 4.3 Harmonic Balancer Question

Ok, after doing some searching I discovered a 4.3 v-6 flywheel (applicable to this instalation) fits pretty much every 4.3 v-6 enine GM made from 89-02. With diameter being the only exception. If your using the stagered bolt starter from your origional engine and the flywheel from your origional engine it should work. <br /><br />As noted by you, Captainloud, they are all counter balanced. Balance shaft or no balance shaft.<br /><br />My Bad :eek: <br /><br />EDIT dont take this for gospil<br /><br />Here are his pics.<br /><br />
flywheel.jpg
<br /><br />
balancer1.jpg
<br /><br />
balancer2.jpg
 
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Captianloud

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Re: 4.3 Harmonic Balancer Question

Reel Poor, Thanks for the info.....but I have to ask the source of your info..... just so I can sleep at night.....<br />Did you check out the pics at the bottom of the site I listed?<br />Thanks Capt.
 
Reel Poor

Reel Poor

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Re: 4.3 Harmonic Balancer Question

I went here and started comparing flywheels back and forth year to year. Aslo called a buddy of mine who does tranny and clutch repairs, he also sells quite a few flywheels. He confirmed what I found on the web site. Thats not the only the site that gave the same part #'s for consecutive years. Google a few for yourself.
 
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Captianloud

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Re: 4.3 Harmonic Balancer Question

Reel Poor, <br />Makes sense to me..........<br />Thanks a bunch.... <br /><br />I'll let you know if it shakes itself apart or it runs smooth after I put it in......<br /><br />Capt......
 
Bondo

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Re: 4.3 Harmonic Balancer Question

Cool,............ I learned something today...... ;)
 
Silvertip

Silvertip

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Re: 4.3 Harmonic Balancer Question

The Vortec V6 first appeared as a "code W" engine in the 1992 Astro and Safari all wheel drive vans. It was also the year the "spider" style fuel injection system appeared. Vortec did not appear until later on the V8's. The code "W" engine was a balance shaft engine.
 
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