4 winns cuddy entrance sagging

[Pikey23]

I just bought a 1985 4 winns horizon 195. We noticed a problem closing the cuddy cabin window. It seems like the top is sagging. If you are standing in the boat facing the cabin it would be on the left side. Is this a common problem? Is there a way to fix it? I took a 2x2 and wedged it between the wood for the seat (inside the cuddy) and the top of the cuddy entrance. I can now open the window easily. But, is there a better fix? Thanks for your help

 

[oops!]

Re: 4 winns cuddy entrance sagging

need to see pictures.

the sagging issue is generally caused by some sort of structural failure.

that could be anything from a rusted screw all the way to water intrusion in the stringers.

try to get overall picts of the area

cheers
oops

 

[Pikey23]

Re: 4 winns cuddy entrance sagging

The previous owner stated that the entire interior was restored last year. Raccoons got inside and ate everything. I would hope that if something major was wrong they would have fix it while it was apart. Just looking through the boat it seems like they pulled everything out when they put the new carpet in it. There have many little things that I have had to fix after the "restoration". Speakers to hook up, dumb wiring mistakes (grounds not connected), and the horn was full with a wasp nest. The small wall is loose there also. I did the best I could with these pics. Please let me know if I need to take some more at different angles. Thanks

 

[rbh]

Re: 4 winns cuddy entrance sagging

Look's like the piano hinge is bent. Check allighnment???

 

[Pikey23]

Re: 4 winns cuddy entrance sagging

Yes, the hinge is bent. But Even with the door completely disconnected from the hinge, there is not enough clearance for the door to fit in the space. If the door is say 12 inches high, the end of the opening is only 11 7/8 inches

 

[rbh]

Re: 4 winns cuddy entrance sagging

I guess you are just going to have to find out why it has sagged at the one end.
Was this disassembled when the PO did his fixer upper thing???
He probably failed to jack it up and put the screws back where they belong.

 

[Pikey23]

Re: 4 winns cuddy entrance sagging

Yes, it was dissembled during the restoration. It actually looks like the fiberglass is sagging in that area. I guess I can just pull it apart and see what is going on in there. I did not know if this is a common problem or not. The folks on this site have been awesome to say the least. Very knowledgeable, so i figured that someone may have seen this before.

 

[oops!]

Re: 4 winns cuddy entrance sagging

He probably failed to jack it up and put the screws back where they belong.

this is most likely the cause.....pic 1 and 2 are interesting and show a sag toward the center.

it seems that the main post is a tad too small for the structure......was this post replaced?
if so ....cut a new one.
when cutting a vertical post....the cut is crutial.
imagine a wall with a 2x4 one inch shorter than the others.

it is really hard to tell unless i can look at the boat as a whole....some times...the sag is a symptom of a greater problem. but impossible to tell from here.

the reason the hinge is misaligned is because the owner tryed to "fudge it" back togeather.

 

[Pikey23]

Re: 4 winns cuddy entrance sagging

There was no post when we got the boat. I jacked the top up with a bottle jack and just put that 2x2 there myself so I could close the window

 

[clockwatcher]

Re: 4 winns cuddy entrance sagging

My guess is that the keel is dropping due to the natural shape of the hull as it sits on the trailer bunks. The hull expands and contracts due to temperature changes. Gravity is trying pull it through the bunks. Jacking up the cap and adding a large bulkhead to the area would certainly stiffen things up and probably remove some knocks and rattles as you pound through the waves. A lot of older (and newer) bow riders have the same issue after a few years. The center window doesn't fit/close as it did when new.

 

[Kracken]

Re: 4 winns cuddy entrance sagging

Four Winns are essentially a two piece hull (top and bottom) screwed together behind the rub-rail. This might sound crazy but it?s worth a try. Remove the rub-rail and tighten every screw behind it. Over time the screws tend to loosen causing leakage and distortion between the two pieces.

 

[Pikey23]

Re: 4 winns cuddy entrance sagging

I will try to remove the rub rail and check the screws. This maybe a dumb question but, how is the rub rail removed? Do I just start somewhere and try to slide it out?

 

[RotaryRacer]

Re: 4 winns cuddy entrance sagging

I think that the sagging is probably somewhat inevitable. That portion of the cap is just not supported by much other than its own structure. It is really tough to keep the cap stiff enough to span that distance and not sag.

When you consider that that boat has a walk through windshield it is very likely that that area has also supported the weight of a person a time or two. With the flip open hatch there is basically just a corner of the cap hanging out in space.

My '81 Four Winns is very similar, except I don't have the extra little window area on port side of the main opening. The bulkhead on my boat is full height and it is very solid. I have my hull and cap separated right now and I can say that these boats were made very solidly.

I think your best bet is to add some stiffness to the the corner of the cap that is sagging. You may be able to sort of over"bend"/correct the area and then add some sort of stiffening rib. You may be able to glass in a piece of plywood that would add a lot of stiffness to that area.

Otherwise, you may just have to forego that extra window and make the bulkhead full height.

 

[clockwatcher]

Re: 4 winns cuddy entrance sagging

I think that the sagging is probably somewhat inevitable. That portion of the cap is just not supported by much other than its own structure. It is really tough to keep the cap stiff enough to span that distance and not sag.

When you consider that that boat has a walk through windshield it is very likely that that area has also supported the weight of a person a time or two. With the flip open hatch there is basically just a corner of the cap hanging out in space.

My '81 Four Winns is very similar, except I don't have the extra little window area on port side of the main opening. The bulkhead on my boat is full height and it is very solid. I have my hull and cap separated right now and I can say that these boats were made very solidly.

I think your best bet is to add some stiffness to the the corner of the cap that is sagging. You may be able to sort of over"bend"/correct the area and then add some sort of stiffening rib. You may be able to glass in a piece of plywood that would add a lot of stiffness to that area.

Otherwise, you may just have to forego that extra window and make the bulkhead full height.

Excellent explaination. Maybe we could see some pictures of what you're doing? I think Pikey would see that adding some bracing is a lot easier than it sounds. The center of my cuddy is saging also. No doubt the rotten stringers and bulkheads have a lot to do with it. I'll be adding a rib bulkhead to mine once I have the floor gassed in.

 

[Pikey23]

Re: 4 winns cuddy entrance sagging

Some pictures and explanation would be great. I wish I would have asked before I re-glued the carpet back up on the ceiling. Oh, Well. This will be a learning experience

 

[Lrider]

Re: 4 winns cuddy entrance sagging

is it possible during the restore they noticed some serious problems and patched it up to allow some wonderful person to enjoy it

 

[Pikey23]

Re: 4 winns cuddy entrance sagging

I guess that it is possible. The interior was done at a pretty well known marina on lake St.Clair. I would assume that they would not "fudge" anything but, who knows?

 

[180Fisherman]

Re: 4 winns cuddy entrance sagging

The boat may have been put back together when the weather was dryer. Now that it is summer, maybe the wood has swelled. If the bow is definitely sagging you should try to fix it although as has been menioned before this sagging may just be inevitable and a function of age. If you don't seeany servious flexing or movement while underway in rough water your best bet may just be to plane a little off the top of the door and more on.

 

[Lrider]

Re: 4 winns cuddy entrance sagging

I guess that it is possible. The interior was done at a pretty well known marina on lake St.Clair. I would assume that they would not "fudge" anything but, who knows?

Since it was done by a "pretty well known marina on lake St.Clair" I seriously would take it there with the paperwork and nicely ask them what could possibly be the problem. No sense in getting into a peeing contest with them, but it might be possible the will say OOPs and take care of it. If not they could at least tell you what is the problem and give you an estimate.

Don't know how fare the "pretty well known marina on lake St.Clair" is from you but for my investment it would be well worth the trip there to get an answer.

Should anyone else attempt to repair it, they can always say that it is no longer their problem. As described, I don't think your attempt to shore it up would constitute a repair.

Wet wood dies not shrink very much when it drys, most of the shrinking would have happened during the post cut of the tree and the kiln drying process.