454 won't start....update, still no start

[salty87]

'runs on'....after i turn the key off, the engine keeps turning over and i have to yank the battery cable. this is after unsuccessful attempts to get it started.<br /><br />what would cause this?<br /><br />the carb is brand spanking new, edelbrock. i upgraded from my old holley. this problem was happening before the edelbrock though.<br /><br />this is a 1987 pcm 454, with dist. and points. i have a tune-up kit but wanted to get her running before i ended up with too many changes to diagnose.<br /><br />so, at this point, i can't get it started. and if i try for too long, it will run on.<br /><br />this was late last night and i just put her away for the night. i haven't checked for spark, there was gas in the carb.<br /><br />should i slap the tune-up kit on and see what happens? i'd like to save my starter from any damage in the meantime.<br /><br />i was all ready to show the edelbrock upgrade, but first i could use a little help.<br /><br />thanks

 

[newport dave]

Re: 454 won't start....update, still no start

When you say "run-on" do you mean that the starter continues to turn the engine over? Or does it "diesel"? If it was dieseling, I don't know why pulling the battery cable would stop it. <br /><br />You say it did the same thing with the old carb. Did it start and run with the old carb, and then diesel when it was shut down, or did it do exactly the same thing?<br /><br />Dave

 

[salty87]

Re: 454 won't start....update, still no start

yes, the starter continues to spin.<br /><br />it did exactly the same thing with the holley. i couldn't get it started with the holley the last time i tried. i could see the holley was dumping gas into the engine, stuck something i figured. the carb was really old and i wanted to switch to edelbrock anyway and hoped this would get rid of the run-on and let her start up.<br /><br />so, still no start and the starter won't disengage after a few tries.

 

[vipzach]

Re: 454 won't start....update, still no start

The carb has nothing to do with the starter continueing to run, you have something wrong with the starter or the ignition switch, I would guess the starter since it does it after several attempts to start, something may be getting hot. I would address this issue first and then take care of the new carb settings

 

[Bondo]

Re: 454 won't start....update, still no start

I would guess the starter since it does it after several attempts to start,

Ayuh,...... The Solenoid is Sticking.......<br />The little copper plate that makes up the switch, actually welds itself to the contacts, because of the carbon,+ crap build-up..The spring can't over-come this, till you disconnect the battery.......<br />Low Cranking Amperage will Compound this issue.....<br /><br />The Solenoid is mounted on top of,+ is part of the Starter...................<br /><br />BTW, This Isn't what's known as "Run-On"...Very Different Issue......<br />I've always known Your Issue as the "Starter Hanging Up"........<br />

i'd like to save my starter from any damage in the meantime.

Too Late for That Thought...... <br />Once you get that changed out, Then you can figure out Why it Doesn't want to Start........<br /><br />Seeing as You've been dumping raw Gas into it,..<br />I'd go ahead,+ Install that Tune-Up Kit you've got....... I'm guessing the Plugs are Gas Soaked,+ will Never fire under compression.......<br /><br />At this point, You think it's getting Gas........<br />That leaves Fire,... Compression,... And, Timing.......<br />You're Missing 1 of them..........

 

[salty87]

Re: 454 won't start....update, still no start

solenoid, huh? not that it really matters, but that makes sense to me and understanding helps. good explanation, bondo.<br /><br />ok, i'll change that out and go ahead with the tune-up. i actually smashed my solenoid last summer and had it replaced then. i'm surprised it didn't last longer.<br /><br />thanks...i'll report back.

 

[Bondo]

Re: 454 won't start....update, still no start

Hey, I Could be Wrong....................Again......... <br /><br />Maybe the Bendix drive is hanging on the shaft...... That would Mechanically Hold the solenoid Closed................<br /><br />Either Way,...... It's the Starter..... Check it All Out, while you're in there...............

 

[intoodeep]

Re: 454 won't start....update, still no start

This may have a slave sol.these look like a ford starter sol. did the no start happen after the sol was replaced? if so check the bypass wiring from the sol. it goes to ballast resistor and should be on the i term. that is the outside term on a gm style starter.

 

[salty87]

Re: 454 won't start....update, still no start

UPDATE<br /><br />the starter hasn't been giving me any more problems, slapped the charger on the battery. but, i haven't gotten it to start yet.<br /><br />i've changed the plugs, dist. cap, rotor, points, condensor, and swapped out my coil for one that i know works and am not getting any spark....i tried to get a wire to spark to the engine block and my timing light isn't reading a spark either.<br /><br />the new carb is spraying gas though.<br /><br />what am i missing or overlooking? <br /><br />i had monday off and the lake couldn't have been smoother and more empty....son of a!

 

[newport dave]

Re: 454 won't start....update, still no start

Start by using a test light and check for power at the positive side of the coil when the key is on. If you have power at the positve side, remove the test light and reconnect the test light ground clip to the positive side of the battery, and the touch the other end to the negitive side of the coil. Turn the engine over and the light should flash.<br /><br />Dave

 

[Destin]

Re: 454 won't start....update, still no start

If you don't have 12 volts at the plus coil wire(purple) with the ignition switch on, make sure the emergency kill switch hasn't been activated.

 

[salty87]

Re: 454 won't start....update, still no start

does the relay solenoid come into play here?<br /><br />the starter spins so i don't think it's a kill or tranny switch.

 

[tommays]

Re: 454 won't start....update, still no start

the starter will spin even if the saftey is on you need to check with a meter or you just spinning your wheels<br /><br />tommays

 

[newport dave]

Re: 454 won't start....update, still no start

Salty,<br />tommays is right, Jumping around to different things that it might be will only waste time. Trouble-shooting has to be done in a systematic way.<br /><br />Five minutes with a test light (do the tests I described above) and we will get you to the next step.<br /><br />Dave

 

[salty87]

Re: 454 won't start....update, still no start

no test light in my tool kit but multimeter shows what the timing light showed...nothing coming out of the coil. how should i test this with the multimeter?<br /><br />sorry, not trying to be difficult...just getting frustrated with it.<br /><br />show me the way, please...

 

[Don S]

Re: 454 won't start....update, still no start

should i slap the tune-up kit on and see what happens?

Yes.......tune it up if you don't have spark. Could be just the points are glazed. <br />PS: You don't just "Slap" in the tuneup kit. The points have to be set properly or it won't run.<br /><br />Do you have a service manual, or are you just winging it. Winging is the best way of obtaining a high frustration factor when you don't know what your doing.

 

[newport dave]

Re: 454 won't start....update, still no start

Do you have 12 volts at the positive side of the coil?<br /><br />Dave

 

[rodbolt]

Re: 454 won't start....update, still no start

hello<br />with the points closed you will show no,almost no, voltage from the + primary terminal to ground.<br /> ya need a book explaining a basic DC circuit. a quick test is toturn the key on. open the points and tsest for 12v at the movable contact. if you attache your spark tester to the coil tower and wiggle the points with a screw driver it will spark if you have 12 volts on the movable contact. just remember that if the points are closed the circuit is complete and you wont see much voltage on the positive feed wire.