5 blade prop on my bayliner

[MalcolmV8]

Hey Guys,

Just picked up a 91 bayliner capri 2050 with a 4.3 v6. Nice clean looking boat. It's my first boat so I have a lot of questions and figuring stuff out. One thing I'm confused about is it has a 5 blade prop on it. I don't see these on other boats, they all have 3 or 4 blades that I see. The seller told me the prop was fantastic and I'd love it but no details beyond that.

I thought props were matched to the engine and boat? Like the pitch, blade count and so forth. Seems like just putting on a random prop wouldn't be a good idea. Thoughts?

Also when I get this out on the water what should I look for in terms of clues that this prop is not well matched?

Thanks
Malcolm

 

[ktbarrentine]

Re: 5 blade prop on my bayliner

Nice prop! High performance and very expensive. Should give a great hole shot and handling. Have you looked at the link at the top of the forum ("boat propellers"). Gives you the ability to plug you info in and get a selection of the various diameters, pitches, number of blades, material that will work for your specific application. Have fun!

 

[skydiveD30571]

Re: 5 blade prop on my bayliner

Yes props are matched to the engine in a sense. When you get to wide open throttle, properly trimmed, you should be in the manufacturer specified rpm range. That's in your engine manual. This is determined by the amount of pitch your propeller has.

Blade count is based on your personal preference. A 3 blade prop will have higher top speed than a 5 blade, but less hole shot. 4 blades are in the middle. If you do water sports very often, you'll really like the 5 blade prop.

It is an expensive propeller which is the main reason you don't see a lot of them.

 

[emilsr]

Re: 5 blade prop on my bayliner

That's a Mercury High 5. Mainly designed for high powered bass boats, but some guys really like 'em on other boats as well.

Probably wasn't a "random" prop selection. So long as you are turning within the recommended rpm range at wide open throttle it's an "appropriate" prop.

 

[MalcolmV8]

Re: 5 blade prop on my bayliner

Great, thanks for the info guys. I'll see how it runs and make sure it's in the RPM guidelines. The manual said 4800 RPMs.
I'd love to get some skiing in and pull a tube behind it as well so sounds like this prop might give the boat some strong lower end pull that'll be handy. As for top speed I won't even know what it's running just yet. Seller told me speedo is the only gauge that doesn't work so I'll have to look into that one.

 

[SkiDad]

Re: 5 blade prop on my bayliner

just make sure to always turn on the blower a few minutes before starting each day. Might be something you are not aware of as a new boater.

 

[MalcolmV8]

Re: 5 blade prop on my bayliner

just make sure to always turn on the blower a few minutes before starting each day. Might be something you are not aware of as a new boater.

Prior to purchasing this boat I had never heard of that. The seller was nice enough to explain that to me and showed me how it works. He also had the owners manuals still luckily and passed those along so I've been flipping through them trying to educate myself as much on it. I also picked up a set of boat muffs so I can hookup my garden hose this evening and get it fired up and familiarize myself with the starting procedure and basic controls before heading to the lake.
I'm also going to get the motor up to temp and do and oil & filter change. The seller told me it had been in storage and in the last year only made it out to the lake once so I'm pretty sure he's not changed the oil in a while.

 

[ktbarrentine]

Re: 5 blade prop on my bayliner

Seller told me speedo is the only gauge that doesn't work so I'll have to look into that one.

A GPS is waaaay more accurate than the installed speedo (even when working) and the recommended way to gauge the RPM/MPH mix for prop selection.....that, and a good shop tach to make sure your installed tach is reading correctly (or even close).

Check your speedo pickup on the front of your drive. Pickup hole maybe plugged, or tube disconnected. (that is if your gen II has this type of speedo pickup).

KB

 

[MalcolmV8]

Re: 5 blade prop on my bayliner

Well got he muffs on today and fired up the engine. Noticed no real water coming out the center of the propeller. Water would pool up in there from the garden hose and eventually splash a little from the exhaust but seems the impeller is toast and doesn't work at all. Engine got up to around 175F confirming that really wasn't working. I shut it down.

I noticed this piece is broke while back there

Tried to put some pressure on it and straighten it out but it appears to be a cast metal and it just snapped right off. That blows. I bet that lower piece costs somewhere around $800 to $1000. Anyway to repair this instead of replacing it? Any cheap sources for a new lower?

 

[jestor68]

Re: 5 blade prop on my bayliner

There are two exhaust relief passages(holes) on either side of the transom plate(bottom). That's where all the water should be seen coming out when running on muffs. Very little comes out the prop hub.

You can't bend that aluminum Av plate without heating first; it will break(as you found out). You can actually run it that way; it won't hurt anything. Any decent shop can weld the piece back on, and straighten it out. You don't need a new lower unit.

If your motor has power steering(most 4.3L do), you should be running the flat anode on the drive, instead of the one with the fin.

You shouldn't start the engine with drive up past the trim range; that's hard on the u joint.

That 5 blade prop is a water sports prop and is considered the king of acceleration and mid range punch.
It won't run as much top speed as a 3 blade, but it'll pull stumps and run so smoothly that it makes 3 blade props seem like vibrating monsters. The main reason you don't see that many is because they cost $500+.

WOT rpm range is 4400-4800.

 

[MalcolmV8]

Re: 5 blade prop on my bayliner

There are two exhaust relief passages(holes) on either side of the transom plate(bottom). That's where all the water should be seen coming out when running on muffs. Very little comes out the prop hub.

Good to know.

You can't bend that aluminum Av plate without heating first; it will break(as you found out). You can actually run it that way; it won't hurt anything. Any decent shop can weld the piece back on, and straighten it out. You don't need a new lower unit.

I didn't think you could weld it due to the cast looking part but good point. I know an excellent welder in the area, I'll get the unit over to him and see what he can do.

If your motor has power steering(most 4.3L do), you should be running the flat anode on the drive, instead of the one with the fin.

I think it's manual. Appears to be cable operated. I can move the outboard part side to side by hand and watch the steering wheel spin.

You shouldn't start the engine with drive up past the trim range; that's hard on the u joint.

Didn't know that either. Thanks for that tip.

That 5 blade prop is a water sports prop and is considered the king of acceleration and mid range punch.
It won't run as much top speed as a 3 blade, but it'll pull stumps and run so smoothly that it makes 3 blade props seem like vibrating monsters.

Sweet

 

[skydiveD30571]

Re: 5 blade prop on my bayliner

I think it's manual. Appears to be cable operated. I can move the outboard part side to side by hand and watch the steering wheel spin.

Power steering is still cable operated. Follow your steering cable into the engine compartment and see where it goes. It probably goes to a hydraulic mechanism. A power steering system can still be manually turned like you found out, it just takes more force.

 

[MalcolmV8]

Re: 5 blade prop on my bayliner

Power steering is still cable operated. Follow your steering cable into the engine compartment and see where it goes. It probably goes to a hydraulic mechanism. A power steering system can still be manually turned like you found out, it just takes more force.

Gotcha. Will take a look this evening. I actually just picked up a new rear anode today with the fin just like the one I had. However you're saying if I have power steering I should return it and get a flat disk with no fin on it?

I found a welding shop to drop the lower piece off tomorrow and have them weld it. Just have to finish dissasembly and removal tonight.

Picked up some blower hose today too as I noticed mine is snapped in half and all the blower does is circulate air within the engine bay area. I also noticed that the direction of air from the blower motor is from the engine bay to the vent yet the air vent is scooped and pointing towards the front of the boat. So if you fired up the blower motor and sat there idling all is good but when you pick up some speed and say forgot to turn off the blower motor it would be fighting the natural direction of air flow. That seems backwards to me.

I asked the marine shop while I was down there today and they told me one vent on one side of the boat should be pointing forwards and the other to the rear of the boat. It's the one pointing to the rear that the blower motor should be blowing out of. Well mine has both vents pointing towards the front of the boat.
Been that the boat is used I'm not sure what a factory stock configuration should be. How are you guys setup?

btw - also picked up gear oil, pump, new impeller and various parts today too. Hopefully have this all fixed up soon.

Thanks
Malcolm

 

[MalcolmV8]

Re: 5 blade prop on my bayliner

Well moving on I got the lower drive all the way off.

Pulled out the impeller and honestly it looked just fine. Almost new for that matter.

I will be installing a new impeller anyways but that doesn't explain my over heating while idling with muffs on. I think the muffs don't seal well enough and push out enough water.

See this lip on the boat at the bottom of the water intake holes that prevents a muff from sitting down flush

See how much water sprays out the sides and all over but looks like very little actually making up into the impeller area. At least it seems that way to me.

 

[MalcolmV8]

Re: 5 blade prop on my bayliner

One thing that didn't seem good when draining the gear oil out the lower unit is that it was a 50/50 of black oil and milky color. I'm thinking some water got in there at some point. My first thought was the bellows must be ripped so I pulled off the upper part of the out drive. Forget what it's called now.

I then inspected the bellows over really well with a flash light and honestly they all look really new and in great shape. I'd say someone replaced those in the recent past. So now I'm confused, how else does water get into the lower gear unit? Or does the bellows even get water in there in the first place? I started thinking perhaps bellow water leaks only leak into the bilge area?
What about the gear oil drain plug. Is there supposed to be a seal there? Mine is just a screw, metal to metal.

Another thing I'll need to keep my eye on, see that piece of black tape in the upper left corner? There's a hole in the boat. wtf.

It's got some white gooey stuff in there and some black tape over it.

On a positive note the auto float triggered bilge pump works. I dumped the hose in there and it tripped on it's own and pumped it out. Finally something working on here

 

[MalcolmV8]

Re: 5 blade prop on my bayliner

BTW yes I do have power steering. So should I return the finned rear anode I just purchase and get the flat one? I'm assuming you guys are saying the previous owner had the wrong one on there?

 

[ktbarrentine]

Re: 5 blade prop on my bayliner

I use the flat anode on my drive with power steering and have no probs at all. You can use either one, so long as it is the correct alloy for your application (either Zinc, Alum, or magnesium...what kind of water are you putting this boat into?)). Word on the street is that the flat anode is for units with power steering, so you be the judge.
On another note, I dont think it is a very good idea at all to hook up your muffs and run water through the lower with the water pump unbolted/off. The oil-seal carrier for the lower part of the vertical shaft is held down by the water pump.... by operating it that way I believe there is a very good chance you can introduce water into the lower oil chamber (although there should be no reason it would have been unseated...nevertheless, I dont like to take the chance) (some else chime in and correct me if I am wrong in that assumption).

Your muffs dont have to (nor do they typically) sit "flush" (i.e. totally sealed) over the intakes of the drive. You will typically get alot of water blowby on the muffs until you start the engine and the water pump starts pumping and sucking from the water supplied by the muffs, and then you will still have water coming out around the muffs. Just make sure you have a good (but not full-on) water supply to the muffs.

Water in the drive? You need to do some good pressure testing of the drive halves to see where your problem is (to identify exactly which seal is leaking). And then a final pressure test when everything is all bolted back together before you refill with oil.

I'm looking at the photo of the view into the drive bellows / gimball bearing and I swear I am seeing a reflection of the gimbal bearing in a pool of water in the bottom of the bellows. Can you zoom in on that area? Tells me you have water in the bellows, but cant be totally sure from the distance.

Yes, you should have a gasket seal for the gear oil drain and vent screws. Those typically come with the water pump kit, if you by the kit that way. Otherwise they are pretty cheap to buy individually. I usually have a dozen or so lying around as replacements when needed after oil level checks, drains, refills, etc.

Your impeller may look new to you, but compare the vanes to the new one you have... You'll see that the vanes on the old impeller have taken a "set" As long as it seals and pumps water and is still flexible, it is typically ok... but at this point...dont think about trying to re-use the old one.

You have quite a project here.

I also think it is time for a moderator to move this over to the mercruiser I/O forum.

 

[fishrdan]

Re: 5 blade prop on my bayliner

One thing that didn't seem good when draining the gear oil out the lower unit is that it was a 50/50 of black oil and milky color.

Ujoints looks very good, not rusty at all, so your inspection finding the bellows being good is correct. There are a bunch of seals in the drive that can leak water into the drive. Bolt it back together (make sure the quad ring seal is between the drive halves) and pressure test the drive. A pressure tester will cost about $20 to make. See the stickies at the top of the Mercruiser forum for tool and procedure.

For the muffs leaking, try bending the metal pinch clamp closed more, I did that to mine and it leaks and slips less.

 

[Godfirst]

Re: 5 blade prop on my bayliner

Bought a boat with one of those high 5 props lost alot of top end and way below my configuration potential that thing is coming off asap.

 

[MalcolmV8]

Re: 5 blade prop on my bayliner

I use the flat anode on my drive with power steering and have no probs at all. You can use either one, so long as it is the correct alloy for your application (either Zinc, Alum, or magnesium...what kind of water are you putting this boat into?)). Word on the street is that the flat anode is for units with power steering, so you be the judge.

I ran the finned unit back up to the marine shop and they recommended I keep it. He said there's no real issue and he felt I'd have better stability with the finned unit. For now I'll just leave it on there.

On another note, I dont think it is a very good idea at all to hook up your muffs and run water through the lower with the water pump unbolted/off. The oil-seal carrier for the lower part of the vertical shaft is held down by the water pump.... by operating it that way I believe there is a very good chance you can introduce water into the lower oil chamber (although there should be no reason it would have been unseated...nevertheless, I dont like to take the chance) (some else chime in and correct me if I am wrong in that assumption).

Your muffs dont have to (nor do they typically) sit "flush" (i.e. totally sealed) over the intakes of the drive. You will typically get alot of water blowby on the muffs until you start the engine and the water pump starts pumping and sucking from the water supplied by the muffs, and then you will still have water coming out around the muffs. Just make sure you have a good (but not full-on) water supply to the muffs.

Yes I completely agree and I was watching for water going in there. My reasoning was I pulled out the impeller and it looked just fine. I was then trying to figure out what the water was doing so I hooked everything up for a visual. I will say at partial water pressures as it's recommended absolutely nothing was making it to the impeller. It would have been turning around bone dry. I had to open the tap to full power to just barely get some water onto the impeller. IMO even that was not enough water to cause the impeller to push any volume up.
This leads me to believe my muffs leak out way to much water. I will try bending the bars and what ever else I can think of to make them clamp on better.
Incase I did get some water into the oil hole I removed the drain screw and allowed the unit to drain for a long time but I didn't see anything come out so I think it's good.

Water in the drive? You need to do some good pressure testing of the drive halves to see where your problem is (to identify exactly which seal is leaking). And then a final pressure test when everything is all bolted back together before you refill with oil.

Yes I'll have to figure out the pressure testing and be sure that's my issue. I also wonder if the bit of milky I saw was because this boat had sat for a year +. Condensation, 0F winter, 100F summers etc.

I'm looking at the photo of the view into the drive bellows / gimball bearing and I swear I am seeing a reflection of the gimbal bearing in a pool of water in the bottom of the bellows. Can you zoom in on that area? Tells me you have water in the bellows, but cant be totally sure from the distance.

Good eye on the reflection. However that was a pool of oil and it was pitch black, as in oil only. No water in the bellows at all.

Yes, you should have a gasket seal for the gear oil drain and vent screws. Those typically come with the water pump kit, if you by the kit that way. Otherwise they are pretty cheap to buy individually. I usually have a dozen or so lying around as replacements when needed after oil level checks, drains, refills, etc.

Cool I did get the kit and I see all kinds of seals etc. in there so I'll get that taken care of.

Your impeller may look new to you, but compare the vanes to the new one you have... You'll see that the vanes on the old impeller have taken a "set" As long as it seals and pumps water and is still flexible, it is typically ok... but at this point...dont think about trying to re-use the old one.

After all this work you couldn't pay me to put back the old impeller I'm just hoping that's all it was and the new impeller fixes the heating issue.

You have quite a project here.

No kidding. Normally I love projects and work on all kinds of stuff but in this case I'm rather annoyed. I paid extra for this boat over some others because it was supposed to be in perfect shape and ready to go out on the water with no delay... so much for that.

I also think it is time for a moderator to move this over to the mercruiser I/O forum.

Yeah thread turned a little long didn't it.