56 Johnson Javelin upper carb needle HELP

[KathyD19]

I apologize for starting a new thread but I had no replies on my other thread (which had started with a different topic). I'm at the end of my rope and ready to sell this motor if I'm too stupid to figure something this basic out. Here's the scoop. I had to remove the upper and lower carb needles/packing nuts in order to remove the air silencer. Since the air silencer covered them as I removed them, I don't know how they looked prior to removal. Now I'm ready to put them both back in and I have purchased new washers because the lower had 2 degraded ones and the upper receptacle had none present. I placed 4 washers in the lower receptacle and was able to replace the needle/packing nut with no problem. The issue remains that the top packing nut will not screw in very far at all even before adding the washer and it's worse since I've added the 2 new washers. I am including pictures of how far it goes in, hand tightened. And at this point, the needle is still able to be moved by hand but if I tighten the pack nut any further, the needle can't be moved. I used a blunt metal dental instrument I had to measure the depth of the receptacle to the inner rim which would be the natural stopping point to the packing nut threads. There should be enough depth available but it just doesn't screw in any further (and knowing it's soft brass, I won't force it). I have to resize all pics that I post on here, for now I'm attaching a couple of it tonight, as far as it will screw in. I will resize some more and add them in a bit. Any suggestions or input is greatly appreciated.

 

[F_R]

Unscrew the needle from the aluminum bushing till it is only in a few threads. That will allow the bushing to seat all the way to the bottom of the bore. Now install the packing nut and packings and tighten the nut enough to hold the bushing from turning. Now turn the needle all the way in to gentle seating and back out 1-1/2 turns. Final step is tighten packing nut enough to prevent rotation due to vibration.

 

[jbuote]

Hey Kathy!!
Got the PM you sent last night...

Looks like F_R has you covered

The only thing I'd wonder, and it sounds like you've already checked, but you are SURE there are no old washers still in there right?
If there are washers in there, then adding 2 more would prevent it from going in as far you might think..

Probably not the issue, and you probably already checked that.
Was just a thought...

You're already in great hands here with F_R! :thumb:

 

[KathyD19]

THANK YOU F_R!!! I did just as you said and got it back together. I just did the first test start and it's running pretty rough but it's running. Here are a few ten second videos of it going...https://youtu.be/E9NY2_lTMKI

 

[KathyD19]

https://youtu.be/QsXid4jvgtc

https://youtu.be/qc3BDGRoMAM

As I said it's running rough, any adjustments I make to either high or low speed don't really seem to make much of a noticeable difference. I guess the next step is to find a friend to take it out on the lake and fine tune them there. Thank you again F_R and Jbuote for chiming in (and yes I did check for any remaining washers, J, I had a high powered flashlight and a plastic dental instrument. There were no washers at all in the top one and only a few brittle pieces of two remaining in the lower one, which I removed completely). Thank again as always to my faithful friend and adviser WillyClay too! He encourages me when I want to throw in the towel!

 

[jbuote]

Sounds pretty good for running in a barrel in the driveway!
Yeah, next step would be to adjust it on the lake using the adjustment procedure from Joe Reeves that WillyClay sent you in post #8 (first page) of the other thread about spark and compression.

It is true... Never give up! This too is proof that with the right info from folks like F_R, WillyClay and the other guru's here, you CAN do it!!

Nice Job!

 

[KathyD19]

Thanks Jbuote! Is it normal that moving the adjustment needles doesn't really make an impact when it's just in the barrel in neutral at half throttle? I don't notice any difference in how the engine sounds when I move either high or low speed.

 

[jbuote]

Others would know better for sure...
I've only had to adjust twice so far on my 50hp..

In the yard, it didn't seem like it made much of a difference, but I had to make the small (1/4 turn) adjustment, then let it sit for a few on that setting so it adjusts... Then another small adjustment, sit... etc...
It did take bit of time for the engine to adjust to each new setting and run differently than the last setting..

When I got to the lake for the final adjustments, same procedure...
The adjustments seemed to be a slightly bigger difference when on the lake, but even then it was still subtle...
What I noticed the most, was when I got too lean and after 10-15 seconds it started to run worse.. Then backed it off 1/4 turn, waited 10-15 seconds, it got better and so I left it there..

I followed the Joe Reeves on mine, and once done it seems to run quite well!
I think I did it all right since it runs right.... LOL

That was my experience with my engine..
Yours may be subtle like mine, or it could be quite noticeable rather quickly.. :noidea:

Not sure that'll help you, but that's what happened with mine..

 

[KathyD19]

Good info to know. Thanks!!

 

[lindy46]

Make sure the packing nut is tight enough to keep the aluminum bushing from spinning in the bore when you turn the needle. If it's spinning, tightening or loosening the needle will make no difference in the setting and how it runs. I usually keep the packing nut really snug so the needle stays in position - almost so tight that the needle is difficult to turn.

 

[KathyD19]

Will double check that Lindy, thanks! Hoping to be able to lake test it this afternoon or tomorrow. Trying to find a friend able to go out with me.

 

[KathyD19]

Bad news....got hubby convinced to go out on the boat with me (for the first time ever) to drive it while I adjusted the carbs, went through all the effort of hooking it up and hauling it to the lake, launched it....it wouldn't start. The motor would spin, so I had power but it wouldn't catch. Not even a single engine fart as if it were at least trying. I had done the whole Joe Reeves carb needle advise prior to taking it out (gently seating the needles then turning them out as advised). Tried over and over to start then gave up and re-trailered and went home. I took the cowl off it so I could get a good look as I was getting the bucket ready for a driveway test and noticed fuel POURING out of the carburetor throat. What the heck??? It just kept coming out so I unhooked the fuel lines from the tank and the fuel line at then engine was pouring out fuel still for a while. I don't use a choke to start it, it's always started right up before so yet again this is another new issue. Obviously with all that gas and vapors, I unhooked the battery and will have to wait until things dry up/air out to even bother with filling the water barrel to do anything to it. What have I done wrong THIS time?? I'm a boat-failure. :facepalm:

 

[jbuote]

Hey Kathy!
You're NOT a "boat-failure"...

I'm not sure what happened there, but could be as simple as heat from the sun/air pressurized the gas tank and forced the gas through..

these gurus will get you straightened out...

 

[flyingscott]

Did you ever replace your float

 

[KathyD19]

Thanks Jbuote. Flyingscott, no I have not done any work on the carburetor itself, only had removed the needles so I could take the air silencer off then when I replaced the needles I saw there were no washers left so I added them and had some issues getting the needles/packing nuts back in but thought everything was done correctly. I'm obviously not correct.

 

[KathyD19]

Anyone out there with any clues? I'm kind of nervous to try to start it again if gas is pouring out the carb right near the battery and wiring etc. Does this mean I need to redo the carb? This motor is one step forward and two steps back.

 

[flyingscott]

Yes you probably need to redo the carb. If your motor has a cork float it could be soaked and sinking.

 

[Willyclay]

Classic symptom of a saturated float that has sunk, causing the engine to be "flooded" at all times and probably will never start. Good thing you left the air silencer off for the lake test or you might not have observed the problem. Hang in there!

 

[KathyD19]

It's always something. Thanks guys. Does anyone know what part number I need to order for a carb kit? I haven't the faintest idea how to remove the carb on this thing (I HAVE done a carb repair on a tiller before but that was obvious and straight forward to how remove it.)

 

[KathyD19]

Does anyone know the part # for a carb kit WITH float for a 56 Johnson Javelin?? I'm not having any luck looking it up.