58 Johnson - Rainwater in Lower Unit??

[Wildthing1]

Hi,

I am completely new to outboard motors and am trying to rebuild a 58 Johnson Super Sea Horse for a 1954 Feathercraft. (Currently have rebuild kits for: Electrical system, carburetor, Fuel pump, and impeller on order)

Motor appears to be in very good condition. The motor was on a boat under a shed since the 60's (Dry). I have kept it inside since I bought it 2 years ago. This motor hasn't been run and hasn't seen a lake since the 60's.

I left the motor outside (on the boat) a few weeks ago and it rained (for the first time in 4 months).This weekend I went to drain the lower unit and got 1-2 cups of VERY clear water (No rust, no oil, no discoloration). Interestingly enough, the top plug was holding suction pretty good as a lot more released (with a sucking sound) when I opened that.

Assuming water from the 60's would've evaporated or discolored by now, the only place this water could have come from is the recent rain.

1. Is there a path from the top of the motor that would allow the rain water to run into the lower unit?

2. Based on this information is it critical I rebuild the lower unit with new seals? Is rebuilding it relatively simple?

 

[Gary H NC]

Re: 58 Johnson - Rainwater in Lower Unit??

I really do not see how rain water could get in a sealed lower unit.
Also if the water had been in there a long time the gears would be rusted and the water would come out brown.
This is a very strange situation.

A pressure test of the lower is a must at this point.
I would do that before dropping more money in it..

Only thought is the seal on the drive shaft is gone and water ran down from the power head into the lower but that is a lot of water to be from rain...and how it got through the cowl?

By the way,WELCOME to Iboats!
We have a lot of guys that know a bunch about those old motors

 

[Chris1956]

Re: 58 Johnson - Rainwater in Lower Unit??

The gearcase is supposed to be sealed. So either that rainwater is quite old, or one of your seals is leaking. You obviously need to find out which it is. You might put in new gear oil and stick the LU in a bucket of water.

If the motor is mechanical shift, then the bottom 1/2 unscrews. you can replace the prop shaft seal, the gearcase (spagetti) seal and the seal around the bearing carrier. Don't forget about the driveshaft and shift shaft seals. You will need to drop the gearcase to get to those.

 

[Chinewalker]

Re: 58 Johnson - Rainwater in Lower Unit??

There's no way for rainwater to get inside a motor that is sitting vertically. Heck, even stood any direction with the drain screws OUT you'd be hard pressed to get enough water into the housing to fill the unit via rainwater. So, that leaves the water having been in there for years. With no oxygen, it's not out of the question that the unit would not be affected much. Rust is oxidized steel - needs air to do its thing.

Regardless of the "how" it would be a good idea to reseal the unit in any case, as the existing seals are now 50 years old and obviously leaked at one time...

- Scott

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: 58 Johnson - Rainwater in Lower Unit??

My vote is for "Chateau de Old Lake"....1960s vintage.
Water leaked into the gearcase because of failed seals.
The oxidation would have removed all the dissolved oxygen from the water and rusting would have stopped. Any rust that was loose would have settled.

 

[jonesg]

Re: 58 Johnson - Rainwater in Lower Unit??

Most of the time its those little seals on the drain screw itself that leaks, especially if re-used after an oil change.


I bought a J150 this yr, the lower end oil was like coffee with heavy cream colored, classic water in the oil. Mechanic said $375 plus $75 parts.

I changed the oil and bought new seals for the drain screw and ran it for a couple hrs in the ocean.
I just drained some oil this afternoon and its clear as honey.
$2 vs $425.

But if you're rebuilding water pump etc and can get the parts I'd do a seal job anyway.

Your engine looks great.!

 

[Wildthing1]

Re: 58 Johnson - Rainwater in Lower Unit??

Thanks for all the replies.

I removed the lower unit yesterday but didn't get a chance to open it up. Consensus seems to rebuild so I am now planning to rebuild the lower unit. Weird that the water was clear...

Thanks again.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: 58 Johnson - Rainwater in Lower Unit??

My vote is for "Chateau de Old Lake"....1960s vintage.
Water leaked into the gearcase because of failed seals.
The oxidation would have removed all the dissolved oxygen from the water and rusting would have stopped. Any rust that was loose would have settled.

Clear is normal in this situation.
When you disassemble, the inside will be well coated with rust.

 

[samo_ott]

Re: 58 Johnson - Rainwater in Lower Unit??

Nice looking engine.

If it was me, and I'm lazy, before doing any work to an engine I don't know, I would just refill the LU with oil and then use the boat for awhile and then recheck it. Then it it's still taking on water I would consider a reseal. Even then on some of my engines I just change the LU oil more often instead... Like I said, I'm lazy And I have too many leaky LU's to fix em all!

 

[Wildthing1]

Re: 58 Johnson - Rainwater in Lower Unit??

Got it open. Should've taken a picture of it. It looks to be in perfect mechanical condition (no rust) though it was nasty. I guess over the 40 years the 90W turned into grease and coated everything (Possibly protecting it).

I decided to replace the bearings while I was in there (Sheesh $50 for two). Working on getting a seal kit locally...

samo_ott - I agree (I should have just refilled and run it). But I am not going to the lake any time soon and I can putter around with the motor, might as well make it as reliable as possible. Besides, I am replacing the electrical system, rebuilding the fuel pump and the carburetor...rebuilding the lower unit kinda tops it off. I am seriously thinking about scrounging some paint from somewhere and just doing a external restoration at this point.

 

[CATransplant]

Re: 58 Johnson - Rainwater in Lower Unit??

Those are my favorite outboards. I had one, and miss it. Once you get done with all your work, you'll have a reliable, torquey 35hp that will attract admiring looks from everyone.

Personally, I think the 1958 Johnson RDS-20 was by far the best looking outboard from the 1950s.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: 58 Johnson - Rainwater in Lower Unit??

I've had great luck buying bearings from a bearing shop rather than the OEM part.
Most OEM bearings are just repackaged and charged at 2x the price.
Bearing number is almost always stamped into the rim.

 

[Wildthing1]

Re: 58 Johnson - Rainwater in Lower Unit??

Tim...$60 for bearings WAS from a bearing house (Motion Industries). Yikes.

Bearings for the Prop shaft:
Timken 12580 - $29
Timken 12520 (raceway) - $13
Norma 304 - $20

Thanks CA Transplant. The motor has definitely 'grown' on me. I really wanted the 2-tone Blue Evinrude from the era but this is what I found first. Turns out these Super Sea Horses were the top of the line for the time. I can't WAIT to get it running! This motor has such little time on it the (original) flywheel on this motor barely has any scratches on it...