'63 40HP Evinrude top cylinder no fuel UPDATE

Grain Boat

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This engine was running pretty decent until it suddenly lost some power. Initially I thought it may be a coil problem since there were some accessories tied into the ignition system. I've since rewired the entire system to isolate the ignition and replaced the plugs, points and condensers and now I'm getting a nice fat blue spark when cranking with electric start. Took it out yesterday for the first time this season and it still barely moves out. Checked the plugs and it appears that the bottom one is firing normally but the top one is almost perfectly clean. Would this be related to just the reeds or could there be any other culprits here? I've yet to pull the carb but I may get to that tomorrow. In the mean time I'd appreciate any suggestions from you seasoned outboard pros. Incidentally the compression is right at 80 for both cylinders. Not great I know but this doesn't seem to be a factor. Thanks in advance guys...
 

Paul Moir

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Re: '63 40HP Evinrude top cylinder no fuel UPDATE

If the top spark is was also dry, I would agree with your assessment. If it wasn't, check to see how far you can get your spark to jump. The normal failure mode for this ignition system is for it to arc-over. So you'll get a good looking spark over a plug-gap, but it will fail under compression. Often, the wide spark gap test will show that a coil is arcing over. You should expect both leads to be capable of jumping around 3/8" at cranking speed.<br />Conceivably, a blown head-gasket would let water into the cylinder, extinguishing the charge and cleaning the spark plug. But I would expect that to turn up on the compression test.<br />I can't imagine much other than a reed failure that would cause sudden and pretty well complete loss of fuel delivery to only one cylinder on that engine. If you do have a reed out, the carb ought to spit out some gasoline from it's throat while it's running.<br />When you get it going, try decarbing the engine to try to bring up the compression. If you haven't done this, you may have a stuck ring or two.<br />By the way, nothing other than the kill switch and vacuum cutout switch should be attached to the ignition system. It is completely independent from the battery system. Connecting the two often results in a fried coil.
 

Grain Boat

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Re: '63 40HP Evinrude top cylinder no fuel UPDATE

Thanks Paul,<br /> The top plug was completely dry but I didn't see any spotting from the carb. I was by myself on the test ride so I couldn't check it while running. I've got my trusty 1970 Seloc's hardcover manual (gawd I love that book) and I'm gonna go in tomorrow.I spent many hours getting the electrical in order so I'm sure everything is good there. Thanks for the response. I'll definitely keep you updated.
 

Grain Boat

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Re: '63 40HP Evinrude top cylinder no fuel UPDATE

Update. If you're still following this short thread Paul, I got the intake cover off and the good news is I don't have any pieces of reed floating around my crankcase. The bad news is I still don't know why fuel isn't getting to the top cylinder. I'm no expert on reeds but they look to be in fine shape. None are sticking or distorted and they lay flat. The stops are a nice solid brass and show no signs of distress whatsoever. I'm now thinking that maybe the compression got progressively worse since it was fuel starved and that I maybe should've decarboned it before pulling it apart. Any thoughts or suggestions before I turn my attention to the plow truck? I should mention that when I pulled the cover off there was a little fuel pooled in the bottom behind the top piston opening. FWIW...
 

daveswaves

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Re: '63 40HP Evinrude top cylinder no fuel UPDATE

Hi Grain boat, I have the exact engine only evinrude, if your reeds are clean, intact, not missing, not bent etc, then I suspect ignition. If you did not replace the coils with new ones then I can almost guarantee its the coils. Mine would fire a spark through air 1/4 inch no problem, but under compression would flash to the mounting plate. The coils are inexpensive. If you are still using the original plugs try the universal spark plug test....place gently in the water (minimum 10 ft deep) if they float they are OK!!!! ;) ;)
 

Grain Boat

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Re: '63 40HP Evinrude top cylinder no fuel UPDATE

Hi daveswaves,<br /> Thanks for jumping in here. I've yet to determine what the cause of my problem is but if it were electrical wouldn't there be some fuel residue on both plugs? The top plug was perfectly dry and clean. I had the opportunity to quiz my resident marine mechanic today in the course of my job as a delivery driver. He thought that if the reeds and spark were good that there was a possibility that the top crank seal might be bad, thus not capable of maintaining the vacuum and pressure necessary to draw fuel into the top cylinder. Made perfect sense to me. His test for this was to remove the gauge from a compression tester, screw it into the top plug hole, and to blow cigar smoke through the hose and see if it came out the top by the crank seal. Of course the reeds would have to be re-installed and he also said I may have to remove the flywheel and armature plate to see if the smoke was coming out or if there were any fuel residue under the armature plate. The only other cause might be a crack somewhere between the cylinders in the crankcase or the intake cover gasket not sealing properly. Don't know when I'll get a chance to look at it again but at least I'll have something to troubleshoot when I do. I'm pretty sure there is a leakdown test that can be performed too but I would think that there might always be some leakage from the reeds so that might not be a definitive test for the top seal. Right now I would like to reassemble the reeds and intake cover with the original gaskets. I've got a tube of Yamabond laying around but I don't know if using it would be a good idea or not. The gaskets are in good shape and in fact I don't think this motor has ever been opened up as there are no witness marks on any of the screws. Anyhow, I'm starting to ramble. If any of you guys want to chime in please do,<br /> Grain Boat
 

Paul Moir

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Re: '63 40HP Evinrude top cylinder no fuel UPDATE

I didn't mention the top seal because I've seen many engines where it was in bad shape or really destroyed, and yet they ran ok. Some ran too lean to ignite at idle, but as soon as the rpms picked up it would start hitting. Also, if the top seal was leaking badly, the oil in the fuel would quickly cover the points killing spark.<br />But it's easy enough to check to see if it's at least intact. Remove the flywheel using a harmonic balancer puller and three 1/4" x 20tpi bolts. Do not use a puller that acts on the edge of the flywheel. Once it's off, if it looks good, then it must be at least ok. If you've got oil everywhere, there's your problem. Retorque the flywheel nut to 105ft/lbs.<br />Do not disassemble the crankcase unless you are certain it's leaking. The crankcase halves are sealed by a rubber seal rather than just a flat flange, and I don't know if Yamabond will work properly on it. The proper sealant is 1000 sealer.<br />I agree with daveswave - there's simply not that much that can stop fuel delivery on one cylinder only. It's gotta be spark. <br />I guess it's possible that the top cylinder's exhaust port is completely blocked by carbon, but I really doubt it. If you remove the top cylinder's intake bypass cover on the right side of the engine, you'll be able to look straight through the intake ports to the exhaust ports.
 

Grain Boat

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Re: '63 40HP Evinrude top cylinder no fuel UPDATE

Hey Paul,<br /> So you're saying I wouldn't even need to remove the armature plate to see any evidence of a leaking top seal and even if it were leaking that the motor would run OK wide open unless the seal was completely destroyed? As far as the coils go, I guess I don't understand how a bad coil would prevent fuel from getting to the plug. Could you explain this a little further? I had the flywheel off once already and didn't see any oil at all so now I'm leaning toward getting some coils but I'd feel a lot more comfortable knowing I wasn't throwing money at the old classic. Thanks again.
 

Paul Moir

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Re: '63 40HP Evinrude top cylinder no fuel UPDATE

That's been my experience, generally speaking. Even with the rubber part of the seal totally missing. But you are the expert on your particular engine. <br />As far as inspecting and even replacing the top crank seal goes, it is unnecessary to remove the armature plate. But it is necessary to remove the flywheel.<br />Naturally, a bad ignition coil is not going to prevent fuel from getting to the plug. I am, and I take it dave is also, assuming that somehow the gasoline is being blown away or drying up before you get a chance to inspect the plug. If you want to prove that that coil is bad, swap it with the other one and see if the problem follows the coil. Just make sure you line it up nice and even with the bosses they sit on. You can do the same with the points and condensers as well. Set them (the points) to open .020" max.<br /><br />Like you said, 80psi per cylinder isn't great, but it's not actually that bad for these engines. A decarb is important, since often these engines suffer from having poor or wrong oil run through them, and from being 'nursed'. Those activities result in stuck piston rings which end up lowering compression. These are three ringed pistons (all compression rings), so one or two rings can get stuck without the compression dropping drastically. A good soaking with decarb often will melt out the carbon holding the ring in it's land.
 

daveswaves

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Re: '63 40HP Evinrude top cylinder no fuel UPDATE

Exactly Paul, if the cyl is not firing and one or two of the rings is stuck the power stroke might not be "crisp" enough to force the fuel mixture up into the cyl head in the first place. What little fuel gets up there may be evaporated by the heat of the engine by the time it is checked. :)
 

Grain Boat

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Re: '63 40HP Evinrude top cylinder no fuel UPDATE

OK guys,<br /> I'm gonna replace both coils and decarb the motor but first I need to know where to find the German-made replacements that I've read about. Also I need to know if it is OK to re-use the carb gasket and the intake cover gasket just using a little sealer on both. I looked for sealer 1000 today and all I could find was a Permatex product that is supposed to be a replacement for Sealer 1000 so I went ahead and ordered it. Should be here tomorrow. I'm also concerned about putting the original reeds back in since they are steel, but I scoured the web looking for Boyesen replacements and they don't seem to exist. Guess I'll just chance it there. I'd like to thank you guys for taking the time to give me all the great advice. If you're ever in Minnesota give me a shout and we'll have a brew and talk boats. In the mean time I'm gonna try to get this Evinrude and 1960 Lone Star Malibu back on the water before there's too much ice. :eek: As soon as I do I'll let y'all know how it goes. Thanks again!
 

Paul Moir

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Re: '63 40HP Evinrude top cylinder no fuel UPDATE

Grain - the Sierra aftermarket coils are the German ones. They seem a little better to me too. PN is 18-5181, Iboats and NAPA autoparts sells it. The stakes in them are threaded, so thread in your spark plug wire rather than simply pushing it in like the manual says. The factory coils are now much better than they were too.<br /><br />I wouldn't order them until you know they're the problem. Pop off the flywheel and have a look at them. The cracks should be pretty obvious. If there's no cracks, then swap the two coils and retest or look elsewhere.<br /><br />I almost always end up making up a new carb gasket out of a sheet of gasket material I have, but I've reused old carb base gaskets with good results. On my freshly made ones, I use chap-stick to seal them so I can reuse them. Works good! :) <br /><br />You should be able to reuse the transfer port gasket no problem. For some reason, they seem to come off intact usually.<br /><br />No problem with using the original reeds - they're not often a problem on these motors. Usually only if it's been lean sneezing a lot. Unfortunetly, Boysen doesn't make a set for us. Mabey someday...<br /><br />How did the piston tops look when you had the tranfer port off? Also, you can check for stuck rings while it's off. Turn the flywheel till your looking at the edge of the rings, and push each one with a plastic or wood stick (ie, non-marring). If one of the rings are stuck, it won't spring as much as the others. Also, you can get decarb solution right in there if you want.<br /><br />Tell us what you find! I'm sure I'm not the only person on this board who'll be interested to find out.
 

Grain Boat

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Re: '63 40HP Evinrude top cylinder no fuel UPDATE

Here is a shot of the transfer/exhaust area on this '63 40 HP Evinrude.[ www.uscusers.com/geoffrey/transfer.jpg ] Things are pretty carboned up especially near the troublesome top cylinder. I don't really know how all that crud would affect the operation so maybe a more seasoned eye could tell me. The rings look OK and a couple had to be persuaded to free up but they are otherwise good. I did pick up the coils today for $17.00 a piece but I'm still waiting for the flywheel to pop. Time for a Grain Belt and some football. :)
 

Paul Moir

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Re: '63 40HP Evinrude top cylinder no fuel UPDATE

Oh, hey, you took the exhaust cover off. That looks pretty good to me there! Usually I see much more carbon in the exhaust area.<br /><br />If the flywheel won't pop, try lifting up on the puller a bit (it might move 1/16" up) and tapping the puller's screw with a hammer. Tighten it and repeat. Don't overdo it or you'll mushroom the screw. And beating down on the crankshaft can't be much good for it either.
 

daveswaves

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Re: '63 40HP Evinrude top cylinder no fuel UPDATE

If Pauls suggestion doesn't pop the flywheel and if the flywheel is really stuck (mine had never been removed from new) tension the puller and gently heat around the flywheel about 2" away from the crankshaft. Do not heat the crank shaft. Let it cool naturally, repeat and so on and so on. keep tension on the puller. A little penetrating oil helps too.<br />be careful with the heat, you dont need much and you dont want to experiment with metalurgy of cast aluminum!! :(
 

Grain Boat

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Re: '63 40HP Evinrude top cylinder no fuel UPDATE

Funny you should mention that Dave (and Paul). It's still sitting out there in the shop with quite a bit of tension on it. Weird thing is, I had it off in the Spring but now it's being stubborn. I must have torqued it down pretty good. I'll try the heat thing tomorrow if she don't pop. Not to worry though. I won't be melting any aluminum. My goal is to get it out on the water one more time before the snow flies so I can tweak it to it's full potential. My only enemy is time :)
 

Grain Boat

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Re: '63 40HP Evinrude top cylinder no fuel UPDATE

Captain's log 09/12/04. I'm not trying to drag this thread out but hopefully others can benefit from my experience. I see there is no shortage of problems on this forum regardless of whether the engine is old or new. I finally managed to get the flywheel off but not before stripping 2 of the 3 holes for the starter ratchet in the flywheel. I tapped them out to 5/16" so now I will have to drill out the corresponding holes in the starter ratchet and find some new 5/16" screws that have a small enough head so as not to interfere with the flywheel nut installation. Is stainless OK in this app or will there be dissimilar metal issues? On to the coils. I have replacement coils but I checked the old coils for primary and secondary resistance. Primary was .8 Ohms in both old coils and secondary was 4.85 and 4.68 K Ohms respectively. Cosmetically they were fine except for a little damage I caused when tapping the holes :eek: . Really nothing to indicate that the old coils were bad but they will be replaced anyway. By comparison, the new coils have a primary resistance of .9 Ohms and a secondary of 7 K Ohms. The plug wires are the original wires and will be replaced. The connections at the coils looked a little oxidized and worn and may have been the source of my woes from the start. How's that for irony? I've almost completely disassembled this motor just to find some bad plug wires. Is there an aftermarket set or will I have to make up my own? I will also need a new wick for for the wick retainer. There wasn't much left of the old wick except for some ratty decomposed material. The wick looks as though it may have been glued to the retainer. Any info on wick replacement would be helpful here. Also, what type of grease should I use on the armature plate collar and linkage? On a side note, when I removed the armature plate, I noticed that the powerhead retainer had a keyway type notch on the inside diameter. Is there any purpose for this notch or is it used for some other application? I'm still optimistic that I'll have this motor running before the snow flies but as with most of my "weekend" projects there always seems to be a number of unforeseen setbacks. Here's looking at next season!
 

Paul Moir

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Re: '63 40HP Evinrude top cylinder no fuel UPDATE

I'm sorry to hear you had so much trouble removing the flywheel! Stainless will be fine for replacement screws - all the originals I've seen are normal steel, and stainless to aluminium galvanic action is not bad.<br />Over the years, the design of those ignition coils changed many times. I've seen secondary resistances as low as 3.7K on some of the earlier coils, but the highest I've ever seen was on the NAPA/Iboats Sierra aftermarket coils of around 7k. So that sounds perfectly normal to me.<br />The Iboats/NAPA replacement points and condensor set does not come with a new wick but rather a little capsule of presumably moly grease instead. So if you can, go to the dealer for this part. The wick originally was a thick peice of felt that ran through the square hole on the wick retainer. You can fashion one yourself if you have some ~3/16 thick felt around. <br />As for the plug wires, just make up your own. First, get some copper core spark plug wire (7mm) from either a small engine repair shop, a motorcycle shop, or a marine parts place. Automotive wire will not work properly with this ignitino system. Next step is to remove the connectors from the old wire set. Simply tear out the old wire from the boot. Then, using a pair of needle-nose pliers, reach inside the boot through where the wire went in and extract the spark plug contact. Take the spring like contact and stab your new wire so it hits the center conductor and makes good contact. Then grease up the contact and the wire a bit, and push it all back into the boot. If the contacts are in bad shape, obtain some new boots.<br />I've always used anticorrosive grease on that collar, particulairly Mercury 2-4-C grease. But any quality grease will work. My next choice would be lithium since it won't wash away.<br />I've never found any use for the notch on that collar. I suspect it's just to aid in plant assembly. The collar can go either way. If your armature plate is wobbly, search out Joe Reeves fix for this on Iboats. It works very well and I've used it a number of times.<br />If you have a timing light handy, you can set your points perfectly. Just above the cam on the armature plate are two little marks. There are corresponding marks on the flywheel. The flywheel marks should 'appear' between the two armature plate marks when operating the light. Check on each plug wire. You can do this test/adjustment at cranking speed so there's no need to torque down the flywheel between checks. Just don't try to run the engine without torquing it.<br />When you go to install the flywheel, it's important that the crankshaft taper and flywheel socket be perfectly clean. Remove all traces of grease or oil on these two surfaces before installing the flywheel, and you won't have any trouble removing it next time.<br />You should not appologise for the length of this thread - they are of greater value to people who search them out in the future.
 

Grain Boat

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Re: '63 40HP Evinrude top cylinder no fuel UPDATE

It's been 17 days since my original post and I'm ready to hit the open water for final testing. After replacing the coils and plug wires and retapping the holes in the flywheel and doing a decarb and a link & sync , I think the old beast may be ready for action. I have a little reservation about how the plug wires are affecting the armature plate movement. With the throttle fully advanced, the plate will come within about 1/2" of the stop. I can advance the plate further manually but the spring tension of the linkage is not enough to overcome the tension of the new Hypalon wires. At the same time the plate will not return fully to the idle position for the same reason although it runs fine at idle. Will this prevent me from getting full RPM's or is this normal for these motors? There is nothing else touching or otherwise restricting armature plate movement and the plate is not loose or worn and is lightly greased at the collar. Also, I mentioned in my original post that there was no fuel getting to the top cylinder. I think I can safely say now that I'm getting fuel but perhaps it was evaporating or being drawn away possibly due to a bad coil, wires or a gasket leak somewhere. I wish I could be a little more definitive about my diagnosis but the truth is I just don't know. The motor seems to idle fine at low to medium speeds in the tank but is maybe just a little "unbalanced" (not unlike a Harley) but I think that is fairly typical of these old twins. Yesterday the winds were in the 30-40MPH range so I couldn't get out for a test ride and now today we're expecting rain. I may just go out anyway and will update again when I do.
 

Paul Moir

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Re: '63 40HP Evinrude top cylinder no fuel UPDATE

Grain - thanks for the update.<br /><br />Most often the problem with the armature plate is that it's too loose. I expect your engine has seen little service if it's original. <br />When the engine is running, the armature plate will be helped along by the flywheel magnets a bit. But if it doesn't advance fully when running, you wont get maximum power. Experiment with different spark plug routings to reduce friction, perhaps bringing them to the other side of the water choke line. You want to avoid having them bend over a tight radius anywhere, or they'll end up cracking there. <br />I've found that wiping the wires with silicone spray keeps them from catching on things. This is the sort of stuff that you apply to car weatherstriping to keep it supple and shiny. With those Hypalon wires, any lubrication helps a lot.<br />If that doesn't help, you can remove the throttle spring and unbend it a bit. But that'll make the throttle more difficult to fully advance.<br /><br />By the looks of that boat you've got the engine on, it should really go! The 'Star Trek' Lark even looks pretty good on there. :)
 
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