'68 Johnson 6 HP leaking when laid over...is this normal?

[clemsparks]

The title says most of it...but I'll try to cover all the bases:

I laid my '68 Johnson 6 hp engine on its side (propshaft and cranckshaft both horizontal) for about 5 or 6 days and when I set it back up, it was leaking (from the exhaust port aft of and above the prop.) gear oil (which seemed clean, fortunately).

Is this normal if they aren't stored upright...or does it indicate a leak that needs to be repaired?

I was planning to drain and inspect the fluid anyway, since it's new to me (and I wanted to look for water and such)...

Thanks,
Clem

 

[boobie]

Re: '68 Johnson 6 HP leaking when laid over...is this normal?

Was it gear oil or fuel that leaked out of the carb??

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: '68 Johnson 6 HP leaking when laid over...is this normal?

The title says most of it...but I'll try to cover all the bases:

I laid my '68 Johnson 6 hp engine on its side (propshaft and cranckshaft both horizontal) for about 5 or 6 days and when I set it back up, it was leaking (from the exhaust port aft of and above the prop.) gear oil (which seemed clean, fortunately).

Is this normal if they aren't stored upright...or does it indicate a leak that needs to be repaired?

I was planning to drain and inspect the fluid anyway, since it's new to me (and I wanted to look for water and such)...

Thanks,
Clem

If it really is gear oil, it is a leak that needs to be fixed.

 

[clemsparks]

Re: '68 Johnson 6 HP leaking when laid over...is this normal?

Hmmm...yeah.

Hard to tell (until I dig into it more) but by poking around exploded parts diagrams, it looks like it could be something like #14 from this diagram: http://www.marineengine.com/parts/j...C&manufacturer=Johnson&section=Gearcase+Group

I'll have to take it apart and see whats really going on here....

Thanks,
Clem

 

[the machinist]

Re: '68 Johnson 6 HP leaking when laid over...is this normal?

To my way of thinking, if it was the upper shaft seal under the water pump, then you would also have water leaking into the gearbox.

However if it is unburned oily fuel (which is more likely), it would leak out whether it was vertical or horizontal.

 

[clemsparks]

Re: '68 Johnson 6 HP leaking when laid over...is this normal?

You know...I've been thinking the same thing.

That is...until tonight when I pulled the plugs on the lower unit (and then dropped one through the deck...I'll have to get out the extendo-magnet for that one!) and saw this:

It is evident that I DO have water in the Lower Unit gear oil. Looks like it's time for some teardown, inspect, reseal action.

Also...I found the reason it wouldn't run without lots of choke...

Can you say varnish? (that's a cork float, btw).

Time for some parts (and a manual).

Clem

 

[clemsparks]

Re: '68 Johnson 6 HP leaking when laid over...is this normal?

OK...so I looked into this a little further.

It looks like RTV Silicone was substitubed for the gasket between the water pump housing and the lower gearcase. I assume this is likely where the leak was occurring.

Question: The middle leg of the outboard (from the bottom of hte powerhead down to the water pump/gearcase)...is that more or less open to the elements? I see that there is no seal between the leg and the lower unit gearcase, the grommets on the water pump tube seem to be designed to keep MOST of the water flowing through the tube (but not necessarily a tight seal), etc.

My manual is on the way, so I'm sure this will all be more clear when I get that. I'm just curious, though...

Is the middle section basically an exhaust pipe with a driveshaft running through it?

Thanks,
Clem

 

[kfa4303]

Re: '68 Johnson 6 HP leaking when laid over...is this normal?

Hi Clem. You're right. The mid section of the exhaust leg is more or less open to the elements, as you put it. It's basically a hollow space that the drive shaft, copper water uptake tube, shift rod(s) share and exhaust gasses share, whereas the gear case is fully sealed. You should be able to get a lower unit reseal kit right here at iboats for about $20. It's a pretty easy job. The only special tool you may need is a seal puller, which you can get from the auto parts store for about $7. Folks here also suggest using 3M #847 sealant on the spaghetti seal. I've also heard that Permatex 1000 will work too. This link may help.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=277190&highlight=lower+unit+seal+kit+installation

 

[clemsparks]

Re: '68 Johnson 6 HP leaking when laid over...is this normal?

So...I got my seal kit in and unfortunately the oil seal for the water pump is not the right size .

I had a heck of a time getting the propeller shaft seal and this same water pump seal out. Ended up with a dremel and a carbide burr. I am curious what type of seal puller people here are using, because I'll keep an eye out for one (for next time). Fortunately I got them out...unfortunately, I'm left trying to find the right size seal for the water pump-to-driveshaft interface.

Thanks,
Clem

 

[kfa4303]

Re: '68 Johnson 6 HP leaking when laid over...is this normal?

Hi Clem. Are you referring to the seal under the water pump housing that the vertical drive shaft passes through? If so, look on the around the are where it is installed and see if you can ind a part number stamped into the housing. You may be able to use that to cross reference the correct seal size. I had a similar issue on a smaller motor, because a previous owner had switched the lower unit to a slightly different model from the rest of the motor, which is why the seal that came with the kit wouldn't fit, even though the rest did. If you still have enough of the old seal intact, you may be able to see a part number stamped into the seal itself. As for the puller, this is what I use, but I think we've all had to snip, clip, and rip out stubborn old seals. Here are some links that may help.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=277190&highlight=lower+unit+seal+kit+installation
http://www.marineengine.com/parts/s...ngine.com/parts/sierra_marine/sierra00257.htm

 

[clemsparks]

Re: '68 Johnson 6 HP leaking when laid over...is this normal?

Yes, that's the housing and seal I'm referring to.

I see a number cast into the housing...382794. Thanks for pointing it out!

A parts diagram shows that this is supposed to be 382796. I'm wondering if/where I could figure out where the 382794 casting was used, and confirm weather or not it uses the same seal as the -96.

Looks like a fairly common type of seal. Maybe I can even order it out of McMaster-Carr or such. I'm hoping when I get a new battery for my digital caliper, I'll be able to find out what OD of seal I need and take it from there. I've emailed iBoats customer service to see if they have any technical specs or dimensions for the seal. I'm sure it'll get sorted out one way or the other.

Thanks again,
Clem

 

[AlTn]

Re: '68 Johnson 6 HP leaking when laid over...is this normal?

while you're there, you may as well replace the shift rod seal <thick o ring >, which is under and held in place by the shift rod bushing..do a search and you'll find ideas on removing the bushing w/o destroying it, or order a new one.... I took that part of the gearcase housing to a local dealer and they removed and replaced the seal and bushing for $10 < this was before I found out that F_R produces and sells the bushing removal tool >

 

[clemsparks]

Re: '68 Johnson 6 HP leaking when laid over...is this normal?

So...

Looks like my housing has been overbored. I haven't had any luck tracking down the size of seal I would need (15/16" OD with a 7/16" ID). So...I'll be on the lookout for a "new" (old/used) lower pump housing for my lower unit.

In the meantime...

JB weld is my friend! It's setting up now and I predict favorable results. Fortunately, the overbore left a ridge which made it easy to align the new seal properly. I buttered the seal OD lightly with epoxy, slid it into place then ran a fillet of epoxy around the interface of seal and housing.

I'll report back how it works (and a photo when it dries).

Thanks,
Clem

 

[clemsparks]

Re: '68 Johnson 6 HP leaking when laid over...is this normal?

< this was before I found out that F_R produces and sells the bushing removal tool >

Who/what is F_R?

Thanks,
Clem

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: '68 Johnson 6 HP leaking when laid over...is this normal?

F_R is a retired OMC mechanic who has forgotten more about these old motors than most of us will ever know. I hope your JB Weld works out, but I'm not too optimistic for the long term. You might want to go on a hunt for another gearcase.

While you have the motor apart, you should also check to see if the crankshaft seal assembly is in place. You may need to pull the powerhead to do this, as it sits in a well in the top of the midsection. The seal consists of several parts, including a spring and is compressed into place by a roll pin in the top of the drive shaft. If that roll pin is missing, it might a clue in regard to the seal assembly being gone too.

This seal assembly is important, because its what keeps water from getting into the powerhead, via the bottom of the crankshaft.

 

[clemsparks]

Re: '68 Johnson 6 HP leaking when laid over...is this normal?

Thanks,

I just came back here to post that I did a search and found/inferred that F_R is a member here (http://forums.iboats.com/member.php?u=79261 FYI).

My crank seal IS probably missing. Looks like the parts are quite expensive.

I'm not worried about the JB weld. There are lots of things more at-risk on this engine than that. This seal is actually, pretty much the ideal application for epoxy. Ideal for the engine? Of course not. Functional? Probably for another 40+ years. I could be wrong, and will be happy to report such if so. At the rate I'm going, though...that epoxy is the least of my worries :/.

Clem

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: '68 Johnson 6 HP leaking when laid over...is this normal?

If the crankshaft seal assembly is missing, you need to replace it. If you don't the motor will probably lock up, the first time you leave it for a bit without running. If you will be running the motor in fresh water only, you may get away with this a bit longer than if salt water was involved, but you will pay the price, sooner or later.