68 'Rude triumph electrical issues

[Crusty bottom]

Long Post:

Hello All and thanks for a great site.

I have been boating/tinkering with small boat motors for quite some time and I am in need of some assitance.

Here is what I have,I recently purchaced a near mint 1969 starcraft Jupiter V. That being said it is powerd by a 1968 'Rude Triumph, eletro shift (model 55873R - SN J13099). The gentelman I brougth it from said it "runs, but when I shift it forward the motor bogs and dies I think its not getting enough fuel"(at this point I should have broght that bridge while I was at it). After I got the boat home and started poking around, I found that it has electrical probems.These are my observations:

Zip cord wire to aux spot light burnt,this is what led me down this troubleshooting path.

1. Starter will spin very good.
2. No spark at all cyl's.
3. Blocking diode, at console disconnected on one side(dont recall which side- Off the terminal board or terminal or on the shift wire connector.
3. All 3 wires on rectifier,damaged insulation/over heated/age
4. Elec choke works
5. "Run" Light works
6. "HOT" light works when I jumper it.
7. I hear the soleniods engage/disengage when I press the FNR switches with key ON.
8. Compression test will be done.
9.**** Found 2 wires that eventually go to the point plate burned.After inspection, found one wire goes to ground on the block and then to the ring that holds the points.The other wire attaches to another spot on the ring, forgot EXACTLY where it attached, but I belive it was attached to the insulated stand off that goes to the "ANTI REVERSE" Spring contact.the other end of that wire goes to a connector to a Black wire with white stripe comming out of the harness.
I refabricated the 2 wires with proper gauge/type and reattched to where they connected on the points ring( see last statement).
When I do a continuty test between the 2 wires(unattached to ground and black/white wire, I see a short(0 ohms).With the key "ON" I see 12v on that black wire with white stripe.
I have the wirining diagram for the motor(1959-1972 EVR/JOHN 3 , 4 , 6 cyl's, appendix A-12)
When I do a resitance test(20 ohm scale/digital meter)on the STATOR I get a reading of about 1.1-1.4 ohms.I dont see any "obvious bad" spots on the stator. ( just tourist info)
I will be replacing the regualtor- part on order-


MY QUESTIONS:

What I dont understand is the diagrams shows the black/white stripe wire as comming out of the amplifier,and it is shown as a DASHED LINE - WHAT IS THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THAT INDICATOR? And if it attaches to an insulated contact, Why do I see a dead short on the free ends of the wires? I suspect that if I rehook the wires "AS WAS" will I get the same result of burned wires? perhaps when I removed the components I lost a "part"??(it was getting dark and the end of a long day).
Thank you in advance for any guiadnce on how to move forward.

Joe

 

[F_R]

Re: 68 'Rude triumph electrical issues

MY QUESTIONS:

What I dont understand is the diagrams shows the black/white stripe wire as comming out of the amplifier,and it is shown as a DASHED LINE - WHAT IS THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THAT INDICATOR? And if it attaches to an insulated contact, Why do I see a dead short on the free ends of the wires? I suspect that if I rehook the wires "AS WAS" will I get the same result of burned wires? perhaps when I removed the components I lost a "part"??(it was getting dark and the end of a long day).
Thank you in advance for any guiadnce on how to move forward.

Joe[/QUOTE]

Holy cow, what a bunch of stuff to read through and try to understand. Anyhoo, the points wiring is very simple. A wire goes from the amplifier to the breaker points (via the insulated terminal) The other wire grounds the breaker plate. I'm not 100% sure but the amplifier wire might be a black and white striped one--explaining the dashed line on the diagram. If you check continuity between the wires, it will show dead short when the points are closed and infinity when they are open. That is what points do for a living. It will also show dead short when turning the shaft backwards. That is what anti-reverse springs do for a living.

BTW, the points are to be set to .009-.010" No compromise.

EDIT: The "finger" on the insulated terminal does NOT go through the loop on the anti-reverse spring. The spring is free to rotate back and forth between the insulated terminal and the bumper in the other direction, according to which way the shaft is rotating.

 

[Crusty bottom]

Re: 68 'Rude triumph electrical issues

Hi,
Thanks for the quick reply. If I understand you,this is "normal"?
Since the motor is "at" rpm and the anti reverse spring is not grounding out, the momentary 12v to ground short is by design?
Can I attempt to check for spark without the rectfier in place?
are there any tests i can do to verify the amplifier is working?
I have the wiring diagram in front of me and all the solid/striped wires are clearly marked as such. the only other "dashed" line connects the igntion switch to choke switch then to the choke soleniod.

Sorry about the verbose post, I wanted to give as much information up front to give a more accurate description as to what was going on.

Thanks Again !
Joe

 

[R.Johnson]

Re: 68 'Rude triumph electrical issues

For some reason, the wiring on these engine's did not age well. It is not uncommon to touch a wire, and have it turn to crumb's. What you think is burnt, is propably age. At one time Rapair had replacement wiring harness, and ignition part's. If still available, they won't be cheap. Probably as much,or more than the engine would bring.

 

[Crusty bottom]

Re: 68 'Rude triumph electrical issues

Hi,
Oddly enough, with the exception of the "damage" I saw, the main harness is in exceptional condition. The damage is localized to the rectifier,the leads going to the point plate and the rouge wire going to the spot light.I'm caustuosly optomistic.

Question:
I dont understand what that "lollipop" blocking diode does. it is disconnected.

Thanks
Joe

 

[F_R]

Re: 68 'Rude triumph electrical issues

Hi,
Oddly enough, with the exception of the "damage" I saw, the main harness is in exceptional condition. The damage is localized to the rectifier,the leads going to the point plate and the rouge wire going to the spot light.I'm caustuosly optomistic.

Question:
I dont understand what that "lollipop" blocking diode does. it is disconnected.

Thanks
Joe

The rectifier is for changing the alternator's AC output to DC for charging the battery. It has nothing to do with ignition spark.

The blocking diode is part of the shift circuit. That is another long story to explain. But it's absence won't prevent spark. What it does is allow the motor to go into neutral immediatly when you start cranking the engine. Test it like any other diode, and if it is good, reconnect it. If it is bad (shorted), and connected, you won't be able to turn the motor off.

 

[Crusty bottom]

Re: 68 'Rude triumph electrical issues

UPDATE:

Repaird the burned +12 to the points and the ground. Cleaned up the rotor and dist contacts with 800 wet/dry -and cleaned VERY well with sovent and wiped down, then cleaned again. Pulled points, Looked OK, but reinstalled and used a GOOD points file, finished off with 800 W/D and cleaned, gaped at .10.

Down loaded manual,followed test process , idendtifed AMP as defective, replaced obviously defective rectifier(Napa) cleaned up all connectors with solvent and brass brush - didnt go crazy,just got the crud off . Installed new AMP(mallory version New- $189 from ebay) ,new coil from the local boat dealer.
Pumped up the bulb, hit the choke, started on the 2nd hit. Ran it for half hr while I adjusted the carbs. Elec shift works , Trailer test complete -Test and tune on Sunday in the creek with a chase boat !

Thanks for all your help .
-J

 

[Crusty bottom]

Re: 68 'Rude triumph electrical issues

Hi All ,
Quick update. I floated the boat in the creek, started right up- after some fine tuning got the motor running very nicely under power, troll speed, low - high transition .. the elec shift is firm and positive. Not to jink my self, but the motor responsed so well that I ventured out to the main river and did a few high speed passess, eventually working my way up to full throttle and went for a long ride. Motor ran very well, started every time with ease, and with 2 people on board moved about very smartly. The boat has a very comfortable soft ride(1969 starcraft jupiter V) It appears that this boat had been stored inside most of it life is is probaly a good 7 out of 10 possibly an 8 depending on whos looking. I have no immeadate plans on doing a resto job but plan on finishing /fishing out the season with this boat ( now named Dee_Vour_ Sea) I will some picks of this and crusty ( 14 ft Mirrocraft fishing boat ) that i re- did earlier this summer.
Thanks for you comments.
-J