69 johnson 85hp starting problem

[TSBoatman]

All the wires are correctly in place, the battery is fully charged, the starter is working fine and when i turn the key there is nothing(no click). I had everything working fine on the original boat but all I did was take the whole set up off and remount to another one and now it wont bump. F_R was kind enough to email me a diagram for the re-wiring so that is def. right. What could be the problem?

 

[JB]

Re: 69 johnson 85hp starting problem

Go to the Engine FAQs and do "Outboard won't start", TSB.

Let us know what you find.

 

[TSBoatman]

Re: 69 johnson 85hp starting problem

Ok, Thanks for the direction, great thread over there but unfortunatly still no luck. I get no click in the starter or selonoid when in start but i hot wired the starter to make sure that worked and its fine. Got zero amps on selonoid. How can I troubleshoot the neutral start switch in the controller? And if not that I wonder if it could be that fuse near the solenoid?

 

[TSBoatman]

Re: 69 johnson 85hp starting problem

*bumpidity bump bump*

 

[F_R]

Re: 69 johnson 85hp starting problem

If it has the original control, it doesn't have a neutral switch in the control.

Do you have a multimeter and know how to check voltages? That ends all the guesswork.

You can start at the solenoid and work backwards or start at the key switch. Lets start at the key...do them in order presented

1. Check for voltage at the red/purple wire at the switch. If 12v OK, or if 0V, check the 20 amp fuse near the solenoid.

2. Check for voltage at the white wire when key turned turned to start position. If 12V, OK. If 0V, bad key switch.

3. Go back to the motor and check voltages at the white wires on the solenoid while somebody turns key to start position. Should be 12V on one and 0V on the other. If 12V on both, bad safety switch. If 0V on both, bad wire coming from key switch. If 12V on one and 0V on the other, but no click, bad solenoid.

4. If above tests indicated bad safety switch, double check safety switch. Is the throttle set to "slow"? It won't close the switch if it isn't. If the throttle is set to slow, ground the saftey switch wire. If it cranks now, that verifies that the safety switch is bad.

Hope this helps.

 

[TSBoatman]

Re: 69 johnson 85hp starting problem

Thanks F_R thats exactly what i need here. I'll give you an update as by the end of the week!

 

[patrick4266]

Re: 69 johnson 85hp starting problem

my 1970-85 hp rude did the same thing. It was the safety switch

 

[TSBoatman]

Re: 69 johnson 85hp starting problem

I will be testing the various wires tonight and wondered if in fact it is the saftey switch can I find it in my manual to change it out or can someone describe it to me-OR maybe a diagram......Anyhow i'm still not sure what it is yet but thanks anyhow.

 

[F_R]

Re: 69 johnson 85hp starting problem

Look at the big lever on the side of the powerhead, that the throttle cable moves back and forth. You should see a switch that is activated by that moving lever. Has one white wire going to it. The safety switch.

 

[TSBoatman]

Re: 69 johnson 85hp starting problem

Thanks F_R- Unfortunatly i wasnt able to get at it yesterday but tonight seems to be promising.......I'll keep you posted

 

[TSBoatman]

Re: 69 johnson 85hp starting problem

I just finished troubleshooting everything and Im almost 100% it is the saftey switch as described above. (Thanks AGAIN F_R)!

The thing that "sealed the deal" the for me ,and I forgot to mention, is one of Tashdasddy's(i think) older posts when he suggested to always have a OMC solenoid NOT just a regular auto one (unfortunatly I forgot we replaced the solenoid with an automobile one the day we bought it) for fear of burning up the saftey switch.

So I have the switch and solenoid on order for Tues. and just had a question: What does and OMC solenoid do that a regular auto. one wont and why does that kill (burnout) the saftey switch? Just wondering so I can get some closure on that headache, thanks!

 

[F_R]

Re: 69 johnson 85hp starting problem

Ok, lemme see if I can explain:

An OMC solenoid has two small terminals. Electricity goes in one, through the electromagnet coil inside, and out the other one. The safety switch completes the circuit to ground.

The car (Ford) solenoid looks just like it except the circuit is goes in one small terminal, through the electromagnet coil inside and out through the mounting bracket to ground. On the Ford, the second small terminal is there to bypass the ignition resistor to give higher spark voltage when starting.

So here's the deal: On OMC, the voltage applied to the safety switch is dropped by the resistance of the electromagnet coil (Ohm's Law).

On the Ford, the voltage applied from the second small terminal is not dropped by the electromagnet coil. In other words, it gives a full 12 volt whallop meant for the ignition bypass. The 12 volt whallop melts the safety switch contacts in an instant or less.

 

[TSBoatman]

Re: 69 johnson 85hp starting problem

OK F_R , you definatley passed and know your sh*t Well, how do you argue with that?

Seriously though, thanks for everything! Now I can convince my buddy (the guy whos been helping me) that we HAVE to get the right solenoid to stop the inevitable burnout of the saftey switch which he at first quoted "A solenoid is a solenoid"

 

[TSBoatman]

Re: 69 johnson 85hp starting problem

Well, here is ANOTHER issue. After being 99.9 percentt sure it was the saftey switch I replaced it. Still nothing. But now I think I face a costly situation that i may need some advice for. After racking my brain and throughly inspecting EVERYTHING I came to the black box in the back and realized there are several wires comming out of it that are dry rotted and touching so i assume i have had a bad ground. What is this box? The pulse pack? Do I have to replace the whole box or can I just get some new wires? And finally,, Could this have been the problem all along?

Any help will be much appricated as I have been working on this all summer and I'm about give up

 

[TSBoatman]

Re: 69 johnson 85hp starting problem

Maybe these will help detirming if A) have the ignition wires hooked up right
B) Need to replace the pulse pack
Ignition: White is on the start and red/white is on batt.
pulse pack: Wires comming out are corroded

 

[TSBoatman]

Re: 69 johnson 85hp starting problem

*Bumpity Bump Bump*

 

[F_R]

Re: 69 johnson 85hp starting problem

Fer gosh sake. Go back to my instructions and follow them EXACTLY and let me know where the tests fail. The amplifier has absolutely nothing to do with the starter cranking the motor over. If it won't start when it does crank, then that is a different story.

 

[TSBoatman]

Re: 69 johnson 85hp starting problem

I'm really sorry F_R for not understanding the solution yet and I know this must be frustrating but please bear with me i'm begging you.:redface: Here is a break down of the tests we did so hopefully this clears it all up.

If it has the original control, it doesn't have a neutral switch in the control.

Do you have a multimeter and know how to check voltages? That ends all the guesswork. 

You can start at the solenoid and work backwards or start at the key switch. Lets start at the key...do them in order presented

1. Check for voltage at the red/purple wire at the switch. If 12v OK, or if 0V, check the 20 amp fuse near the solenoid.

2. Check for voltage at the white wire when key turned turned to start position. If 12V, OK. If 0V, bad key switch.

3. Go back to the motor and check voltages at the white wires on the solenoid while somebody turns key to start position. Should be 12V on one and 0V on the other. If 12V on both, bad safety switch. If 0V on both, bad wire coming from key switch. If 12V on one and 0V on the other, but no click, bad solenoid.

4. If above tests indicated bad safety switch, double check safety switch. Is the throttle set to "slow"? It won't close the switch if it isn't. If the throttle is set to slow, ground the saftey switch wire. If it cranks now, that verifies that the safety switch is bad.

Hope this helps.

The only two places i have voltage is at the white wire @ solenoid and the red/white wire on the batt. terminal of the ignition everyting else is 0 voltz. Still no click. When I turn to start I have 0 voltage at white wire on ignition so accoding to your checks that indicates a bad key switch. But how could I have bumped it before when I grounded the saftey switch wire if the key switch was bad?
Also I changed the auto solenoid to a brand new omc so i dont burn up any more saftey switches. I also had a brand new 20 amp fuse so i popped that in anyhow. Still no click.
ALSO- Two things are bothering me, one, before i changed the solenoid and saftey switch I grounded the wire and it bumped like I said before. Two, is after i replaced them I tried to turn and got nothing so I grounded the saftey switch again and now it wont bump.
Sorry again F_R and/or anyone else that has read this but I must be blind becuase I just dont see what it is.:redface:

 

[TSBoatman]

Re: 69 johnson 85hp starting problem

Anyone have any answers?

 

[TSBoatman]

Re: 69 johnson 85hp starting problem

Still stuck on this one. If anyone has any info. that may be helpful it would be much appricated, thanks.