'71 Evinrude StarFlight 85 Buy Inspection

[Lakester]

a bit long) hello, i am very interested in a 1971 silverline with a 71 evinrude starflight 85 on it and it uses the evinrude electric controls. while i am an experienced mechanic type, both 2 and 4 strokes, i have no real 2 stroke outboard experience. this is a nice boat/engine combo, imo, close VG/mint condtion, owned for past 36 years by same boating enthusiast. the boat is a 'familiy legend'. always garaged, always taken care of. dad's baby!! a 'creme-puff' in every sense. dad got a new one and none of the kids are boaters in life now, so its on the block. comes with lots accs, to include factory service manual. that is one reason i am interested in this boat + condition. i am 3 mi to a large lake and have decided to go boating. its a nice rolling package, lake ready. i have talked at length with owner and son. over years engine got new l/u late 70's, carbs rebuilt once late 80s, and dad has complete tool kit put together to pull flywheel which he does when it wont start. then he dresses the points and it lits right up. last in lake 6 mo ago ( fresh l/u oil then) and last started with dad there... 2 weeks ago. had to pull flywheel to clean points. gas is 5 mo old, points are not fresh, plugs are not fresh, carbs stated to be fine and engine runs, shifts and cools nicely, lots of power on a light 16' trihull. i ask dad about plugs, fuel pump, etc, and he says, no need to change, its running well. dad is not that mechanical, but i ask: well, to freshen things up? no, no need, runs great. then he adds, well, fresh plugs cant hurt. dad is a boater guy and he babies his baby. so he stated usually not over 20-28 mph, cept WOT to pull skier out. but it will do 35/40. mostly used to family ski. so for this engine series, i read in these posts about solenoids, elec power levels relative to voltage, bat connection's condtion, etc. so can someone shed a bit of light as to what i should be looking at in what i believe is a very nice boat in excellent condtion and running very well, but old? as far as engine/controller goes? what would u inspect on such an engine if u were going to look at it? also, if i get it, what would u want to do to help ensure its consistant lake readiness and reliability? i can start regularly, i can tighten fasteners, check torques. i can loctite blue fasteners, i can clean wire/cable terminal ends, i can add silicone grease to terminal ends, oil this or that moving/sliding part. i can replace hoses, i can rebuild or replace fuel pump if it has one, etc. and i can listen to u guys. if it becomes mine, should i just inspect it for overall readiness condition subject to it running well? i mean in addition to studying shop service manual for maintenace areas. i am concerned about electrics to solenoids, older modules if any, etc... reliabilty. dad did mention to me when i asked about under the hood its condition there... there is some rust. i dont know if thats the flywheel top, frame parts, brackets or? the engine mount to transom integrity is perfect and clean. engine has never been off the boat. very nice is how the entire boat is. i would expect excellant compression in each cylinder, but i dont know if it is a single set of points, how many cyliners, 2 or4?, a mag or distributor,nor what excell cyl press would be, or serviceable but used or poor but running? etc. so some tips/thots for a good engine Buy Inspection would be very helpful. if someone knowledgeable wanted to fone chat with me some during buy inspection about what i am seeing, i would welcome that. or is this an ageing old engine with out dated electrics i should stay away from?? i am in geo area where 12 mo boating is oft possible. btw, great forum!! you guys are SHARP!! kind regards, lakester.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: '71 Evinrude StarFlight 85 Buy Inspection

the 85 is a 4 cylinder, taken from the reliable V-4 design basically used for the last 57 years. the motors were very reliable, the control shift switch is the main culpret to go out. which can be rewire with a toggle switch type situation. the switch and solenoids in the lower unit are hard to find. do a compression check. and a test run. if you buy it. put a water pump kit in it.
it is common for the older motors to have a little rust.

take some pictures of it and the boat and post them. here's how
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=224951

where are you located?

 

[Lakester]

Re: '71 Evinrude StarFlight 85 Buy Inspection

hello t'sdaddy: thanks for the info. would it be wise to replace such things as fuel pump? plugs i can decide on. what would be some good #s on compression test? what are new OE #'s. anything over 100 and = encouraging? to do a comp test, would u pull all plugs then check each hole? would you do it on cold engine or warm it up a bit first? i assume std 13 mm threads on plugs? what goes out on controller module? switching parts break, or just wear out? what is involved in doing a water pump kit? does Evinrude offer a kits to do it, all gaskets etc for l/u? what is approx cost of a pump kit? are the solinoids similar to a starter solenoid? electrical contact, engine is ground, wire coils, plunger and activating bell-crank? what fails in them? water short circuits? coils fail? lack of lube/service to activating parts? do u think that 5 mo old mix gas is too old? i use a cap of marvel mystery oil on my rotax 2 stroke in the mix to 6 gals, will that help on an engine like the E85? is the engine a + or a - ground? what is the CR on the v4 85? did i read that the l/u pats are sensitive to not using Evinrude oils? question, i know... hope u or someone can help. i like this boat. would u consider buying it with a shore test only if the price was attractive... cover to trailer? is the garden hose connection adequate for a shore test of engine ops? kind regards, lakester

 

[Lakester]

Re: '71 Evinrude StarFlight 85 Buy Inspection

<where are you located?> ~ sorry, missed that. so texas...

 

[Lakester]

Re: '71 Evinrude StarFlight 85 Buy Inspection

also, i was wondering what the prop size and pitch is on this engine? and about how much the engine weighs? my guess is 270-300 or so? thanks. lakester

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: '71 Evinrude StarFlight 85 Buy Inspection

lot's of questions, ok, lets try.

compression cold 95 up warm 100up the main thing is, compression tester are all different, you want all 4 to be with in 10% of each other.

it is recommended to use Champion Plugs, designed for them. i will try to find which one.

the control has a push button shift switch, that sends electricity, to solenoids in the lower unit to direct the flow of oil in the lower unit that shifts the gears.

fuel oil mix is 50:1. 85 octane and tcw3 rate outboard motor oil. i have used marvel to free up motor, but never mixed it.

you use BRP Premium Blend type C oil for electric shift lower units. available at J/E dealers. nothing else in the lower unit. always replace the seals on the drain and vent plugs, when you remove them. #1 cause of water intrusion.

if you have good spark, compression, and it will run and idle on Muffs, (do not rev above 1500 rpms, on muffs, can do damage.) i would consider buying it.

you can see a complete engine diagram, and parts list here. copy and paste without the " " "http://www.crowleymarine.com/brp_parts/3985.cfm"
then clik on the particular part of the engine you are interested in.

you are in the range of the weight. there are several props for that motor, it has to do with the marriage (set up) of the boat and motor.

hope this helped.

 

[Lakester]

Re: '71 Evinrude StarFlight 85 Buy Inspection A-R

Re: '71 Evinrude StarFlight 85 Buy Inspection A-R

hello t's daddy: YES!, sure appreciate your inputs. i might pick ur Brain some more... am just drinking some coffee this am... so i go to see the boat. (A) i say would like to check the compression. i have my compression tester. he says OK. so would i want to then pull all 4 plugs and install guage, then on key only, and N, crank it over til i get my readings (usually 3 compression pumps of piston?) ? or start it up, let it warm up, do some other inspections while it cools down some? what would u do? compression test first while cool? all plugs out? 13mm plug thread? would u put any oil drops in cyl before testing its compression? (B) so the control module sounds like it could use some lube, dust cleaning, inspection and correct reassembly from season to season? (C) any idea of what a pump kit costs? or is a new water pump feasible? i saw pix of l/u dropped. there was a cast iron looking item in middle of housing. is that the water pump? (D) so solenoids in l/u direct oil to shift D N R ? and some sort of geartrain then allows some gears to selectively slide back n forth via forks? (E) do u think that 5 mo old gas is getting iffy? or does the 2 stroke oil help to stabalize it somewhat? (F) is the garden hose connection sufficient for a shore running of engine? (G) i have heard the term "on the muffs" but i do not know what that is or means?? (H) also, if the engine was buzzed to over 1500rpms what would i look at, or are we talking internal scoring, or ignition?? type damage to piston crown?, etc. (I) i assume this engine has an alt or something to produce voltage to keep bat charged. where is it located and where is the wire connection and does it connect to solenoid terminals or? (J) for start up how long at idle on choke? then idle? etc to properly warm engine up and assure a good heat soaking. on my rotax i run at 2400 for 4 mins then 3400 for 4 mins to assure complete heat soak? (J') the choke switch is held UP for start, then when engine fires let go per dad. he then gave it gas and off he motored. does the engine keep some choke on til it warms up? (J'') dad says not to mess with manual choke on engine. he says the choke settings are set to work off control/throttle unit. how does the elec choke interface with the manual choke linkeage, etc? (J''') on L side of engine is a knob, says: SLOW SPEED. below that is Slow and Fast?? or?? hard to read in pix. what is that knob for and how is it used properly? (K) how do u check the lower case oil level? (L) is the engine + or - ground? (M) what is the CR on this engine? looking for 100 or so on comp test i would surmise in range of 8:1 or so, but prob not over 9:1 even being a 1971. (N) some rust is expected under the hood, so what components would i look at and expect to be have rust on it? (O) what are some typical probs with solenoids? rust? corrosion? dirt? (P) can u comment on ignition? plugs no prob, wires no prob, so is it a conventional distributor? runs off cam, points 1 set, condensor,? with a cap n wire to coil. 2 coils? 2 distributors? or one for all 4 cyls? what sort of probs are typical to ignition system? (P') if i pull flywheel is it a direct replacement? does not affect timing? is ignition timing set via distributor position/timing marks with light? what kind of advance is used, electrical, mechancial or vac? (Q) what should i look for on l/u? can u shift the gears from N to F or R without the engine running? if so i might put in F and i might grab the prop and rotate L to R. what sort of play is normal? also, i might put some pressure up and down on prop shaft. how much if any is normal? movement like .005-.010? or none or? is this a thru prop exhaust. (R) with hood off and looking at motor what passage ways should i inspect? well, that should help me to better understand what i am going to look at. i have listed the A-R below to assist u answer if you'd care to answer these questions. u can ctl A it all and paste into reply. then u have questions and the A-r. then just delete my orig post section and reply with your A-R answers or maybe better to leave it all there for other guys so interested. i note some guys looking at our thread, so perhaps these answers can help others, too. u can be sure i DO appreicate ur help and knowledge very much. i know a lot more today than last week! LOL btw, i am saving ur comments and taking them with me. these, too. kind regards, lakester [film at 11!]

A

B

C

D

E

F

G

H

I

J

J'

J''

J'''

K

L

M

N

O

P

P'

Q

R

other comments.

 

[Lakester]

Re: '71 Evinrude StarFlight 85 Buy Inspection S

Re: '71 Evinrude StarFlight 85 Buy Inspection S

oops, i forgot to ask:

S - on my rotax i can undo carb bowl clip and drop it to inspect inner bowl, gas, any contaminents. reinstalls simply enuff. on this or perhaps, these... carbs is it possible to look inside bowls easily without ruining any carb bowl to carb body gaskets is they are what seals the bowl? what is a carb kit cost for this engine and does it do both carbs? dad said his procedures are to run engine with gas OFF prior to putting it away so as to drain the carb of fuel so as to not let it sit. is this usually sufficient to ensure a clean carb inside all else being equal? regards. lakester

 

[Lakester]

Re: '71 Evinrude StarFlight 85 Buy Inspection

oops, again...

t's daddy: u mention 87 octane. is unleaded premium such as SHELL ok to use, also? and... dad says he adds a bit of anti-knock lead additive to each 6 gals of fuel for tank when he fills up. does this help a 1971 engine? i was led to believe lead was good for anti knock and valve guide lube. does this engine use some type of reed valve, rotary valve or combo for intake and exhaust porting...? do the valving components tend to clog up w/use since 2-stroke or usually clean porting? are there induction ports in cyl wall? kind regards lakester

 

[Lakester]

Re: '71 Evinrude StarFlight 85 Buy Inspection

you can see a complete engine diagram, and parts list here. copy and paste without the " " "http://www.crowleymarine.com/brp_parts/3985.cfm"
then clik on the particular part of the engine you are interested in.

------------------



thanks!! where does the points cam get driven from? i dint see any shaft to drive the points cam in the ignition system schematics drawing? is it off the engine crank? kind regards, lakester

 

[F_R]

Re: '71 Evinrude StarFlight 85 Buy Inspection A-R

Re: '71 Evinrude StarFlight 85 Buy Inspection A-R

hello t's daddy: YES!, sure appreciate your inputs. i might pick ur Brain some more... am just drinking some coffee this am... so i go to see the boat. (A) i say would like to check the compression. i have my compression tester. he says OK. so would i want to then pull all 4 plugs and install guage, then on key only, and N, crank it over til i get my readings (usually 3 compression pumps of piston?) ? or start it up, let it warm up, do some other inspections while it cools down some? what would u do? compression test first while cool? all plugs out? 13mm plug thread? would u put any oil drops in cyl before testing its compression? (B) so the control module sounds like it could use some lube, dust cleaning, inspection and correct reassembly from season to season? (C) any idea of what a pump kit costs? or is a new water pump feasible? i saw pix of l/u dropped. there was a cast iron looking item in middle of housing. is that the water pump? (D) so solenoids in l/u direct oil to shift D N R ? and some sort of geartrain then allows some gears to selectively slide back n forth via forks? (E) do u think that 5 mo old gas is getting iffy? or does the 2 stroke oil help to stabalize it somewhat? (F) is the garden hose connection sufficient for a shore running of engine? (G) i have heard the term "on the muffs" but i do not know what that is or means?? (H) also, if the engine was buzzed to over 1500rpms what would i look at, or are we talking internal scoring, or ignition?? type damage to piston crown?, etc. (I) i assume this engine has an alt or something to produce voltage to keep bat charged. where is it located and where is the wire connection and does it connect to solenoid terminals or? (J) for start up how long at idle on choke? then idle? etc to properly warm engine up and assure a good heat soaking. on my rotax i run at 2400 for 4 mins then 3400 for 4 mins to assure complete heat soak? (J') the choke switch is held UP for start, then when engine fires let go per dad. he then gave it gas and off he motored. does the engine keep some choke on til it warms up? (J'') dad says not to mess with manual choke on engine. he says the choke settings are set to work off control/throttle unit. how does the elec choke interface with the manual choke linkeage, etc? (J''') on L side of engine is a knob, says: SLOW SPEED. below that is Slow and Fast?? or?? hard to read in pix. what is that knob for and how is it used properly? (K) how do u check the lower case oil level? (L) is the engine + or - ground? (M) what is the CR on this engine? looking for 100 or so on comp test i would surmise in range of 8:1 or so, but prob not over 9:1 even being a 1971. (N) some rust is expected under the hood, so what components would i look at and expect to be have rust on it? (O) what are some typical probs with solenoids? rust? corrosion? dirt? (P) can u comment on ignition? plugs no prob, wires no prob, so is it a conventional distributor? runs off cam, points 1 set, condensor,? with a cap n wire to coil. 2 coils? 2 distributors? or one for all 4 cyls? what sort of probs are typical to ignition system? (P') if i pull flywheel is it a direct replacement? does not affect timing? is ignition timing set via distributor position/timing marks with light? what kind of advance is used, electrical, mechancial or vac? (Q) what should i look for on l/u? can u shift the gears from N to F or R without the engine running? if so i might put in F and i might grab the prop and rotate L to R. what sort of play is normal? also, i might put some pressure up and down on prop shaft. how much if any is normal? movement like .005-.010? or none or? is this a thru prop exhaust. (R) with hood off and looking at motor what passage ways should i inspect? well, that should help me to better understand what i am going to look at. i have listed the A-R below to assist u answer if you'd care to answer these questions. u can ctl A it all and paste into reply. then u have questions and the A-r. then just delete my orig post section and reply with your A-R answers or maybe better to leave it all there for other guys so interested. i note some guys looking at our thread, so perhaps these answers can help others, too. u can be sure i DO appreicate ur help and knowledge very much. i know a lot more today than last week! LOL btw, i am saving ur comments and taking them with me. these, too. kind regards, lakester [film at 11!]

A Remove all plugs and ground the wires. Install gage and crank engine till highest reading is achieved. It is NOT necessary to block the throttle open, but go ahead if you insist. Standard 14mm threads

B Not much maint needed on the control

C Cost depends on whether oem or aftermarket and whether complete pump or impeller kit. That's it around the drive shaft. Plastic, not cast iron.

D It is shifted hydraulically. An oil pump in the lower unit provices the hydraulic pressure. The control sends voltage to solenoids that operate valves in the oil pump. A piston slides the shifter dog back and forth on the prop shaft.

E Iffy. Smell it. If it smells like gasoline it should be OK If it stinks, it is turning to gum (BAD). Oil does not stabilize it nor de-stabilize it. But there are stabilizer products. They do not help gas that has already started to go bad.

F Yes. Use an attachment, commonly called "muffs"

G See F

H If it was damaged you would know it. Probably a con rod sticking through the case.

I It has an alternator built in under the flywheel. Output goes through a rectifier to change it to DC, then to the battery cable by way of the wiring harness. Get a manual if you want to figure stuff like that out.

J Some had an automatic warm-up choke. Many were purposly disabled per service bulletin.

J'

J''

J'''

K Should be full ut to upper level plug. Drain and full plugs are large straight slotted screw plugs. If doing a refill pump oil into the lower hole till it comes out the top. Install top plug 1st, then lower one.

L neg ground. Hook it up backwards and instantly blow the alternator rectifier.

M Have no idea

N anything made of steel

O You mean starting solenoid? Dirty loose or corroded battery cables connections.

P Don't be pulling the flywheel without a manual. Do what the book says. Ditto on timing.

P' See P

Q It wont shift unless it is running. Remember the oil pump? Can't pump unless it is rotating. It will always be in forward gear when not running.

R Look for anything obvious. Burnt or discolored paint would be high on the list. Bad, cracked or loose hoses. Deteriated wires.

other comments.

Whew!! Gotta be the record for long questions list.

 

[Lakester]

Re: '71 Evinrude StarFlight 85 Buy Inspection

hello t's daddy: sure do appreciate all your wonderful help. i now feel comfortable to say i have a reasonable understanding of what i am going to look at, its systems, what to look for... and what i am getting into. they sure do pack a lot of stuff, parts, etc into a small package. appears to be a nicely designed machine. while we are on the subject... lol, would u only use 87 octane unleaded or would u use a higher octane also? the solenoids i meant were the ones in the l/u, so sounds like dirty l/u oil, scoring, metal grit would be the sort of thing that would render a solenoid there inop? aside from an electrical failure. the schematics were informative and helpful also. i may only be passing thru, but imo, you have done a very good job in helping me. i was a bit surprised to see the bat cables run up into the throttle control. would have thot smaller wires would have engaged other things like starter solenoid. well, with ur help i have made a decision. i plan to tell sellers i will come and look at it. test it, start it, etc. look it over closely. if my interest is continuing tie the deal up with some deposit $ on paper. then come back after the holiday and test it under load in the water. if all is well, will buy. if not, then deposit is refunded if any operational probs. if i just decided to CX on the deal, they can keep the deposit. if they balk, i pass. just how it has to be. the romance and adventure stops as soon as there is an engine issue. and while i have an understanding of it, the path there and what is there is foreign. does this engine need any special evinrude tools to take apart l/u, exh housing, or?, etc. will let u know what prevails... kind regards, lakester

 

[Lakester]

Re: '71 Evinrude StarFlight 85 Buy Inspection

oh yeah, another thot... what would u say about end play at the prop hub, ie, up n down, or sideways? -0- since the shaft down there would no doubt be in some hd bearings? any would be a bad sign? if it goes into F when not running, does it then start up in F? i dont know but i thot the driver would push N and then start it? is there a way to rotate prop to see if it and its drive shafts are turning smoothly, no tight spots, tightness, excessive play, etc? thanks again! oh yeah, is it a thru prop exhaust or sep exhaust port? kind regards, lakester

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: '71 Evinrude StarFlight 85 Buy Inspection A-R

Re: '71 Evinrude StarFlight 85 Buy Inspection A-R

just fuel and oil, reed valves,

 

[Lakester]

Motor Mounts

Motor Mounts

hello: looking at one 85hp evinrude i see what appear to be motor mounts just below the starter motor area. being the engine i am considering prob has OE original mounts would replacements be in order due to rubber hardening over the years? or dont worry about it? how many mounts are there 3 4? kind regards, lakester