85hp, 10 Questions, Misc, Prop, Tach, other. Long.

mikmic2

Seaman
Joined
Jan 31, 2006
Messages
74
I first give some background information, and at the end of this long post, I recap my questions.<br /><br />I have a 85hp force, on a 1978 15' Glastron Bass boat. It does not have a tag that I can find, other then one that is unreadable.<br /><br />It is 72 inches wide, and 15' feet long, with a 21" transom. According to the formula of:<br /><br />(2 x Width x Length)-90<br /><br />I get (2 x 6 x 15)= 180 -90 = 90HP<br /><br />It appears the largest engine my boat can have is a 90hp. I have an 85hp Force model 856X8A.<br /><br />I bought the boat without a lower unit, or a prop, so I don't know where to start propping it out at. I went through the formula above to show that my boat is not very big.<br /><br />I don't believe it weighs over 1200 or 1500 pounds, so from what I have read I should start at a 19 pitch. Is this correct? According the the following link, I might even use a 21 pitch, because my boat is so small.<br /><br /> http://www.miwheel.com/MIWheel/html/products/outboard/PSearch.asp <br /><br />But according to the link above, for under 16 they show a 21 pitch, but only a stainless and not an aluminum. They show a cupped and a uncupped prop, but I have read that I should stay away from a uncupped prop, because it will pull to the left. Is this true in all circumstances?<br /><br />When calculating the weight of your boat for Prop sizing, do you include the weight of the engine?<br /><br />Does a 15' fiberglass bass boat that is 72 inches wide weigh over 1200 pounds? I wouldn't think so, but just thought I would ask what something like this normally weighs.<br /><br />I am thinking about going with a 19 pitch aluminum to start out with. Is this a fair guess??<br /><br />I guess one other thing I should consider, is when fishing, me and my son weigh about 400 pounds together, and we also carry about 200 to 300 pounds of gear and tackle. Should that change my guess of a 19 pitch prop? I take it you should add that weight to the weight of the boat?<br /><br />So does this mean that a 17 pitch prop would be better, with the extra weight?<br /><br />I am also looking for what kind of tachometer I could get for this motor.<br /><br />If I was to pick one up off of Ebay, what should I be looking for in a tach, to make sure it will work with my 1988 85 hp Force engine, model 856X8A? I understand you use the purple wire under the dash? You also have to have a ground wire to the tach I presume?<br /><br />I also have another problem I noticed the other day while doing a compression test. <br /><br />Two of my cylinders are 130, and the other appears to be 135. I figured that was good. I warmed the engine up for a few minutes and checked again and it was the same. <br /><br />But, I noticed that the previous owner had snapped off a headbolt. He must have been running it like this, as he had the hole where the head bolt was filled with some blue silicone. <br /><br />My question is, I suppose to do the right thing, I should yank the head off, drill a hole in the bolt, and use a easy out, to get it out. Correct?<br /><br />I really wish I didn't have to take the head off, to get this bolt out. Is that the only way. It appears the head is about 1 1\2 inches thick, so I would have a hard time getting an easy out in there even if I could get a decent hole drilled in the center of the bolt, unless I could purchase a longer easy out then the ones I currently own. It is broken off flush with the block. So it is recessed in there the thickness of the head, which is about 1 1/2 inches. <br />I was going to try to get it out without taking the head off, but I noticed it looked like without a bolt in there, it was open to the water jacket, so I figured if I drilled, I would get some shavings in my water jacket. Maybe it's not open like I think, but I will look again.<br /><br />Where is the best place to get a head gasket for this? Does a head gasket set usually come with a water plate gasket as well?<br /><br />To recap, here are the questions someone might be able to help me with. <br /><br /><br />1. What size prop? A 17 pitch perhaps to start? I want to use aluminum. From what I have read, I should look for 4800 to 5200 RPM's at WOT? Should I stay away from the uncupped prop, like I heard? Does it pull hard to the left with the uncupped prop? What are the pro's and con's?<br /><br />2. What should I look for in a Tachometer to make sure it will work with my engine?<br /><br />3. Could anyone comment on my broken off head bolt problem? Easiest, and least expensive possible solution? Maybe I can find a longer easy out then the one's I currently own? LOL <br />At least I wouldn't have to take the head off then.<br /><br />4. Best place to find a Head Gasket? I read somewhere that after you warm it up, and let it cool again, you should re-torgue the head bolts to specs. Is this true?<br /><br />5. What kind of decarbonizer should I use?<br /><br />6. If I am taking the head off, should I do a little manual decarbonizing then? <br /><br />7. If I understand correctly I should use nothing on the head gasket? <br /><br />8. Should I use some type of sealer on the water jacket plate gasket?<br /><br />9. I have rebuilt Motorcyle engines and have only taking two cars to the shop in 25 years, so I do have mechanical ability, just not alot of experience with outboards. I do know the bolt sequence and head bolt torque specs, but is there any other hints or tips for me, if I must tackle this head gasket job? Any other things I should, or could do while I am in there, that is not included in the manual? <br /><br />10. I need to get a manual for this. Should I get the "Seloc" or the "Clymer" manual? Which one shows the tune up procedure the best? Which is the best all around manual, for the mechanically inclined?<br /><br />Thanks to Roscoe for the help on the other thread. I have a Lower unit on the way now. I probably wouldn't sent out for the lower unit, if I had known the head bolt problem before hand. <br /><br />I slowly got sucked into this thing. LOL <br />Before I knew it, I have spent to much time and money on this engine. Oh well, it wouldn't be the first time. I hope it will be the last, but I know better. :)
 

jastacey

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jan 25, 2004
Messages
173
Re: 85hp, 10 Questions, Misc, Prop, Tach, other. Long.

I had a 85 HP force on a 16' Bayliner, and I had a 17 pitch stainless steel prop and it put the motor in the right RPM range ( WOT @ 5200 ), I'd start with a 17" pitch and work up or down from that, it your going to any watersking, go with a lower pitch prop, but watch your RPM's, to decarbonize the engine, use seafoam in the gas ( dump a couple of cans in to the tank ) and also get the spray can version ( Deep Creep ) get a couple of cans for the spray and use them all when spraying into the throat of the carbs, then let it sit overnight, but make sure the engine gets warmed up first, as to the head bolt, I'd leave it till it leaks, the easy out has never worked for me, they break, I've always has to use a acetolene tourch, it's very hot and you can get a very narrow area of heat, and that should break the grip od rust/salt crystals, head gaskets and other comsumables, can be bought through Mercury ot if you have access to a Napa store go there, as they sell Sierra stuff, get there cataloge, it may be free or 3.00 or 4.00, if you can get the shop manual from mercury if it is still avaliable, I had the Serloc also, it goes over items in a general way, but it has no really detailed instructions to that specific engine.
 

jastacey

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jan 25, 2004
Messages
173
Re: 85hp, 10 Questions, Misc, Prop, Tach, other. Long.

I forgot, the Tach, I don't know if that motor had a 20 pole set-up, does the motor say " force by mercury " on the motor cover?, I'd be willing to say that that year, you have a 20 pole stator, as to the tach you have very few to choose from, I believe Teleflex still make one.
 

mikmic2

Seaman
Joined
Jan 31, 2006
Messages
74
Re: 85hp, 10 Questions, Misc, Prop, Tach, other. Long.

Thanks for taking the time to reply. <br /><br />I was looking under the flywheel and I did count about 20 stationary coils, that the flywheel revolves around. Am I correct in assuming that the 20 coils I counted are considered poles? <br /><br />Would something like this tach work?<br /> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...em=4579583666&sspagename=ADME:B:EOIBSAA:US:11 <br /><br />I should really leave that head bolt alone? I sure do like that idea. But, is there a possibility of doing permanent damage to the motor?<br /><br />Thanks again for your reply.<br /><br />I wish I was in Texas. LOL<br /><br />Big Bass and warm weather!!! Sign me up!
 

roscoe

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
21,752
Re: 85hp, 10 Questions, Misc, Prop, Tach, other. Long.

According to the description, that tach should work.<br /><br />Or look for a Teleflex 20 pole tach, part number 53743p<br /><br />Use entire loaded weight of boat and gear to figure with.<br /><br />I would leave the head bolt alone for now.<br />Lets see if the thing runs under a load first, before making things worse.<br /><br />So, you are running this engine without a waterpump? Lets hope it did not get too hot. These engines were prone to overheating and causing head warpage.<br /><br />Best place for parts/gaskets, is your Mercury dealer, or online/aftermarket if you need a part that Merc no longer carries.<br /><br />Clymer manual is a bit better for Force Motors. Found several errors in Seloc, and its hard to understand.
 

mikmic2

Seaman
Joined
Jan 31, 2006
Messages
74
Re: 85hp, 10 Questions, Misc, Prop, Tach, other. Long.

Hello,<br /> Thanks for the reply. <br /><br />For some reason I never got a e-mail notification that there was another response to this thread. <br /><br />I did run the motor for a minute or so. I was well aware that I could easily over heat it. I did warm it up for a minute just to see if it did run. I also ran a compression test afterwards and the compression is still the same as it was before I started it. It did not get very hot at all. <br /><br />I did end up getting a clymer manual and I am happy with it. <br /><br />By the way, if I wanted to get that headbolt out, which method would be best?<br /><br />I had heard that easy-outs by themselves, (or should I say hard-outs) rarely ever work, because the bolts tend to corrode to the aluminum. <br /><br />I have heard of the penetrating oil for a few days and tapping on it a tad. Then applying a little heat, but I don't enjoy attempting to add a little heat to an aluminum block. :-( Then while it is still warm attempting to use the easy out, after the bolt has been predrilled.<br /><br />Are these my only options?<br /><br /><br />Is the 130psi to 13psi pretty good for this motor? Does it seem like a pretty tight engine? <br /><br />What would one expect out of a new engine, for compression readings? <br /><br />Thanks again for everything. <br />Mike
 

Realgun

Commander
Joined
Jul 31, 2003
Messages
2,484
Re: 85hp, 10 Questions, Misc, Prop, Tach, other. Long.

Billybobbass I would start with a 17 pitch for that motor and boat. The tach you want should be a 20 pole tach they are hard to find.<br />I wish I knew where you were in the country to see if you high altitude or low. I actually need a 13 pitch to get the 17.5 Ft bayliner to 5400 rpm. Basically if the prop is attached and the tach reads 4500-5500 then your ok however its better to be closer to 5500 than 4500 without going over. I Have the same model Force its an 85 must be a different hood as its an 1988 856X8A was built by U.S. Marine Corp.<br /><br />I don't have clue to the bolt issue.
 

turbo.tony

Cadet
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
Messages
12
Re: 85hp, 10 Questions, Misc, Prop, Tach, other. Long.

If the bolt is flush with the block weld a 3/8" washer to it with a mig, then weld a 3/8" nut to the top of the washer. Screw it out with a 9/16" wrench while it's still hot then run a flat file over it. Chase the threads on all sticky bolts before assembly with a bottom tap or hex chaser. You could also use a BluePoint type 2 piece extractor where the collar slides to the base of the spline, but it sux when it doesn't work. If you do, drill the hole all the way thru and soak it in penetrant for a while. I'd use the wleder method. Always worx...T
 
Top