86 force 125hp, no spark on #1 cyl

SwampThing

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Nov 6, 2006
Messages
117
I have an 86 force 125hp on a 1986 Bayliner Capri Cuddy.

Prestolite ignition system. 2 CDI units, 4 ign coils.
I'm having a problem with no spark on the #1 plug.
Compression is good. All fuel system components have been cleaned, rebuilt, or replaced and set to specs.. Including the carbs and fuel pump.

The boat lacks power, especially at top end, and I can't get any kind of "hole shot". Rather it gradually increases speed.

The stator checks out with an ohm reading of 750 (spec 500-900)
Trigger wires check out at 48.9 on one and 51.5 on the other set. (spec 48-52)

Coils have the following readings:
All coil readings between the primary wires and ground have a reading of 0 ohms. I'm assuming the spec of 0.2 - 0.7 is to allow for the maximum allowable resistance to ground (ie, connections, corrosion, etc.) before the ground connection could become an issue. Note; A zero reading is not an O.L reading.

Coil secondary wiring readings would indicate the need for new plug wires. All reading are between 155 - 160. The spec calls for 120 -160. So the plug wires are at the higher end of spec but still should work sufficiently to fire the plugs. Although they are going to be replaced.

So what am I left with? The CDI unit? When I pul the plugs the #1 plug is completely clean like it just came out of the box. There is an amount of wet fuel on it though. The rest of the plugs show the normal carbon deposits.

The only strange thing is that I have put a timing light (Snap On brand with inductive plug wire pick up). Sometimes the timing light flashes and sometimes it doesn't. Rest assured there's nothing wrong with the timing light. But this doesn't seem to make sense since the plug looks like it's never fired at all.

Okay I'm fresh out of ideas. Before condemning a CDI unit I would like to be able to positively identify it as the source of the problem. Any suggestions?
 

john from md

Commander
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Messages
2,184
Re: 86 force 125hp, no spark on #1 cyl

Pull the plugs and put the wires back on them and ground the shells by wrapping some wire around them. Have your wife crank the engine and look for blue sparks on all four plugs. If you are getting an orange spark or intermittant spark, you can try swapping the coils.

Coils rarely go bad, ususally the problem is in a CDI module or stator. If you are confident that your stator is good, get a CDI module when swapping the coils proves negative. If you are not that confident, swap the CDI modules and look for the problem to move. No move = bad stator, move = bad CDI module.

A place called CDI repairs has about the best prices on Force electronics.

John
 

SwampThing

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Nov 6, 2006
Messages
117
Re: 86 force 125hp, no spark on #1 cyl

Well I switched the CDI unit today and there was no change. The #1 plug is definitely not firing. I had them out for a timing check and figured I would see if they were all firing first. #2 plug also seems to have a somewhat weaker spark than the other two, but only sightly. I might try swapping the plug wires around first .... then it's time to pull the flywheel...
 

ammermanfam

Seaman
Joined
Jun 22, 2009
Messages
50
Re: 86 force 125hp, no spark on #1 cyl

Just curious, you only showed the ohms for 2 trigger sensors. I do believe you should have 4 readings, 2 from each connector. maybe you missed those??? Just replaced my trigger on 85 hp so its all fresh in my mind. Just my 2 cents. John
 

SwampThing

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Nov 6, 2006
Messages
117
Re: 86 force 125hp, no spark on #1 cyl

Just curious, you only showed the ohms for 2 trigger sensors. I do believe you should have 4 readings, 2 from each connector. maybe you missed those??? Just replaced my trigger on 85 hp so its all fresh in my mind. Just my 2 cents. John

You are correct. Thanks for the catch. I went back and rechecked it all again.
All trigger wire sets ohm out right around 50 ohms, give or take a 0.1 ohm or two. So they're all with the spec of 48-52 ohms. (blue to orange and red to white with green tracer)

Don't know where I got the Stater (charge coil) spec of 500-900. Most likely because it says one thing in the text and another in the actual spec chart - gotta love these manuals. It's actually 680-800, but either way I'm still at 748 ohms on both sets of blue to yellow wires.

I also checked all wires for shorts to ground.

*** Is it possible to replace the plug wires with out the coils on these engines? If so how does the wire come out of the coils?

[Edit] Okay I'm convinced it's the #1 coil. I swapped the coil to different feed wires from the CDI units and it still wont fire on any of the other three feed wires coming from any CDI unit.
 

john from md

Commander
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Messages
2,184
Re: 86 force 125hp, no spark on #1 cyl

Buy a new coil. You can find them on the net for $45 to $60.

The only way I have ever seen wires replaced on these coils was when a very knowledgeable mechanic spliced new wires about 1 inch from the coil.
He only did it as an interim fix and replaced them that winter.

John
 

SwampThing

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Nov 6, 2006
Messages
117
Re: 86 force 125hp, no spark on #1 cyl

Replaced the coil today. Problem fixed.

Thanks again. Sometimes it helps to be able to think out loud and bounce ideas with people who have a bit more experience and knowledge.
 

john from md

Commander
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Messages
2,184
Re: 86 force 125hp, no spark on #1 cyl

No sweat. I know I can speak for some other professional mechanics when I say that we get something back from helping out.

John
 
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