'86 Rude won't shut off and shocks

[ba_50]

This E30ELCDM's wiring harness was shot so I replaced it. The motor will start and run but won't shut off, and I got shocked up around the block and when I touched the shift box. The original wires color were hard to ID. I have a wiring diagram for 85 30hp and a '79 35hp. The '86 30 has 4 posts on the terminal block yet the 85 diagram has more. The yellow wires seemed to be mixed up so from left to right I put 2 yellows, 2 Y/G, and two Y/b's. Red went in the far right. There was a grey wire from from the red boot left over and I put it on the red post since there weren't any posts left, and that's where the last one was. The Y/B wire went from the power pack, through a connector and spliced to a b/y in the red connector.

How can I correct this problem? Thanks.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: '86 Rude won't shut off and shocks

Using an ohm meter to trace wires as needed, the kill circuit is as follows:

Black wire from powerhead ground to powerpack.
Black/Yellow wire from powerpack to raised tower like "M" terminal of ignition switch.
Black wire for other regular "M" terminal of ignition switch to ground.

Key in OFF position = The two "M" terminals are connected (Ignition grounded, disabled)

Key in ON position = The two "M" terminals are NOT connected (Ignition not grounded, enabled)

 

[ba_50]

Re: '86 Rude won't shut off and shocks

Joe,

The r/Blue wire was on the A ignition position instead of B. Probably my fault since I was in a hurry checking it since the starter wouldn't turn over. If anyone is reading this I wouldn't recommend getting in a hurry on this. I was standing in water from the ears and got a jolt I won't forget. Not sure how it compares to 110V but it's a bunch.

There was continuity between the two "m"'s with the switch off and no continuity with it on, which should mean the switch is ok. There was continuity all the way back to the last plug before the power pack. I sanded off the ground wire and block. The motor still won't shut off with the key or the emergency clip. Does that mean it is in the PP?

The gray wire was cut off in the shift box and according to a diagram it operates the warning horn, and there is none.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: '86 Rude won't shut off and shocks

At the plug just before the powerpack on the engine harness side of that plug....

With the key in the OFF position, having a ohm meter set to high ohms, connected between the black yellow wire and a powerhead ground, you get a full scale reading with an ohm meter, I would assume the powerpack is faulty UNLESS the ground wire leading from the pack is disconnected or has a really bad dirty connection.

Oh, the shock you got.... it's in the 1000's of volts but lower amperage. However, it's enough to knock a person out of the boat. Welcome to the club (grin).

 

[ba_50]

Re: '86 Rude won't shut off and shocks

I set the ohms meter to 1K and zeroed it. Then clipped one end to the y/b wire pin in the small connector plug on ignition side with the key on, and touched a ground on the starter bolt. It read 10 but not a full scale deflection. I also moved the PP ground wire to a like new spot on the block and still wouldn't shut off.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: '86 Rude won't shut off and shocks

You had the key ON?? Reread my last reply.

With the key ON, that black/yellow wire is at the engine wiring harness end is not connected to anything but the raised "M" terminal of the ignition switch... and that "M" terminal is NOT connected to the other ground "M" terminal. You should not have got a reading at all.

To check the powerpack, simply ground the black/yellow wire that leads FROM the powerpack. This would normally ground out the ignition. If doing this, you still have spark, the kill circucit of the powerpack is faulty.

 

[ba_50]

Re: '86 Rude won't shut off and shocks

Ok with the key off and the PP pin grounded the meter read about 750.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: '86 Rude won't shut off and shocks

Assuming you have the ohm meter set to high ohms and with the leads connected together, have it adjusted to show a full scale reading..............

I don't know where 750 ohms is in comparison to a full scale reading BUT with the key OFF and having one lead of the ohm meter connected to the engine harness side of the Black/Yellow wire, and the other lead of the ohm meter connected to ground, you should be getting a full scale reading (absolute continuity!).

Did the engine still have spark when you grounded out the powerpack side of the Black/Yellow wire? This should have killed the ignition... and if it still had spark, that indicates the powerpack kill circuit is internally faulty (bad powerpack kill circuit).

 

[ba_50]

Re: '86 Rude won't shut off and shocks

I don't know what the high ohms reading is but I think it is 1K. The other two are rx10 and I. Not sure why 750 came up but the second time I got almost a full deflection say 9 or 10, 0 being full deflection. I didn't get a spark with the PP pin to grd. Same grd as PP if that makes any difference.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: '86 Rude won't shut off and shocks

So with the powerpack side Black/Yellow wire grounded, you have no spark.... that proves that the powerpack internal kill circuit is okay (powerpack is okay).

What you need to do is to trace the engine harness side Black/Yelow wire back to the ignition switch raised "M" terminal and from the other regular "M" terminal to ground.

 

[ba_50]

Re: '86 Rude won't shut off and shocks

The b/y wire still checks out being good between the PP plug and the switch. The switch gives the same readings for on & off as another johnson switch does. The neutral switch seems to work ok. I cleaned the black ground wire from the M to the side of the control box. I'm still getting a spark with the igniton off.

There is a small black box below the ignition switch with a b/y wire running out of it. Could that be the problem?

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: '86 Rude won't shut off and shocks

Rig a small length jumper wire (alligator clips) between the two "M" terminals (Carefully to avoid blowing the fuse). If you still have spark, that black wire from the "M" terminal IS NOT grounded to the same ground that the powerpack is grounded to.

If, on the other hand, you now DO NOT have spark, replace the ignition switch.

This conclusion is due to the fact that when you ground the powerpack black/yellow wire, you have no spark.

 

[ba_50]

Re: '86 Rude won't shut off and shocks

Joe,

There was no spark using the jumper wire, and the spark came back with them off again.

I don't understand why the ohm meter said the switch was ok.

I moved the PP ground to the top right bolt on the water jacket side. How can the PP ground be the same as the shift control box as a ground?

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: '86 Rude won't shut off and shocks

If a engine wire was connected to either of the "M" terminals when you checked the ignition switch with the ohm meter, you were taking a reading on whatever that wire led to.

If there was no wire connected, one of those "M" terminal was shorting out to another switch terminal and reading that component.

 

[ba_50]

Re: '86 Rude won't shut off and shocks

I'll pick up another switch. That was really educational, thanks for the help.

Are you up for one more challenge? I haven't been able to get a '92 J10RENA to power up for 3 years. It has been posted here and elsewhere but nothing works. One mechanic thought it ran too rich. I can post the details if you are interested. There are 3 more things I can try but you might come up a different idea. I should probably start a new thread though. Bob

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: '86 Rude won't shut off and shocks

Yes, start a new thread for the J10RENA engine with a thorough explanation of the problem and what you've done so far. Condense it somewhat if possible so as not to drag it out with unimportant comments.

 

[ba_50]

Re: '86 Rude won't shut off and shocks

Joe,

I put a new ignition switch on and it still won't shut off. Got a good deal on it and I like having an extra one anyhow.
I got shocked again. The high B/y terminal was very close to the Bat terminal so I changed that and wrapped black tape around the B/Y high post. Haven't checked it yet'


I rechecked the PP plug to ground and no reading on ohms. The balck wire was also grounded.

Key off, OM lead to engine harness B/Y to grd. No readings the last few tries but I think it went full scale yesterday cause thats what I wrote down. With the PP B/Y ground- no spark with key on .

t I wrote down. I checked the continuity between the small plug and red one and it was ok.

What am I missing?

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: '86 Rude won't shut off and shocks

Initially you said that by using a small jumper wire across the two "M" terminals of the ignition switch... you had no spark.... BUT without that jumper even with the key in the OFF position, you did have spark. That indicates a "open kill circuit" within the ignition switch (Bad Switch).

You have now replaced the ignition switch and still have the same problem?

 

[ba_50]

Re: '86 Rude won't shut off and shocks

I guess that's right about the jumper wire, anyhow same problem. How can I tell if the "M" terminal has the same ground as the PP grd?

 

[ba_50]

Re: '86 Rude won't shut off and shocks

Update: The problem is solved. First let me say that the motor was new to me. Someone had run the engine ground wire and a purple one outside the control box and taped them up. After connecting the ground wire with the other two in the box it worked normally. Glad that's over with! I'm not an electrician.