88 2.3 OMC no compression in 2 cyl Advise needed

[Stinky_1]

Hello gentlemen...... and ladies,

So, I bought a bayliner capri over the winter. It was winterized, so I didnt want to mess with it a lot. I put it in my heated garage and left it there till a couple weeks ago. Once it started getting warmer I filled up a large barrel with water and fired it up. Ran decent, but a littlle rough.

I figured a lot of the roughness was just because the gas was from 6 months erlier. So, yesterday I filled her up and took her out for a run on the lake.

Everything was working fine. So, we threw a rope on the back and blew up the tube. While pulling the kids around it struggled to get up to speed. Not a big deal I figured since it was pulling a big tube, so some force was expected.

It quickly went from full throttle to dead in a second. I put it back in neutral, and fired it back up. it took a little coaxing, but did start. We went another 20 feet and it started to peter off, so I started playing with the throttle position a bit to figure out if it was running lean, too rich, no gas, too much gas...... Then it started a fient knock. Then it got louder and louder. The engine then died.

Got a tow back to the beach, put it on the trailer and back home. Get home, back in the bucket of water and I can get it to start, but idle is a LOT rougher than it was before.

I pulled one of the plug leads off while running to see if I had a dead cyl. Fisrt one off, no change in rpm or sound. Ok, next one off, same thing!!! Figureing something really is not right I pull a 3rd one off and the engine stalls. Put them all back on, start back up, then pull the last one and it stalls again.

So, cyl 3 and 4 are working.

Grab my compression tester, run it on, and I get ZERO on number 2, and maybe 15 or 20 psi on number one. It was still a LOT lower than I would expect.

I know that I could try dumping oil in and see if compression gets better....... But, I always thought that was the test for LOW compression, not NO compression. So, even if I did that, I dont expect to see anything else come out of it at all.

Now, my theory is...... I have blown the head gasket between the 2 cyl. So compression from one spills over to the other, rather than showing up on my gauge. Which is why they are not running right. I am hoping if I tear it down that I will find the split I think is in the head gasket.

If its not that, then it would have to be a stuck valve, which I would also find on the way to the head gasket anyway.

Its VERY inlikely that I lost all 3 rings on the piston. And if one is broken, I would still make compression, and or have a seized engine after it wedged itself into the cylinder wall.

So, what I am looking for is confirmation that I am on the right track. If you have read this far, you now know everything I do about this situation. I am planning to tear it down monday morning and start looking around.

Now, I have a few questions.

1) Would a gasket kit for a ford 2.3 from a mustang be suficient to repair this? or is there some sort of a difference in the material or design? I use this boat in fresh water, and it has fresh water recirc for cooling

2) If I get to the head, and find the valves good, and the gasket good and a broken piston ring, what are my engine swap options? if anything I would LOVE to grab a merc 3.0 and throw that in. But have no desire at all to change out the leg. But cant find ANY info on if they are compatible at all with a merc engine and OMC leg

3) Am I even on the right track with the head gasket, and is there ANY way at all to figure out if that is it for sure besides pulling off the head and looking?


Any and all advise, opinions and ideas is more than welcome!

Look forward to your replies

 

[danond]

Re: 88 2.3 OMC no compression in 2 cyl Advise needed

Pull the head. You need to do that regardless, and it should answer some questions. You should use marine gaskets for the engine. Fresh or salt water.

 

[Stinky_1]

Re: 88 2.3 OMC no compression in 2 cyl Advise needed

so there is a difference between the 2 then? the reason I ask is because my local auto parts store can get me a full gasket set in 3 hours or less. But I will most likely need to order a set online for the actual OMC set. ANd then it will take a lot longer. I didnt want to order a set until I had the head off. No point in getting a gasket set and spending money to find out that wasnt the problem.

I agree on pulling the head though, pretty much any of the possibilities would involve pulling it off anyway. I just have my fingers crossed that its the gasket and not something else.

My theory on the knocking is that when the head gasket blew, all the fuel air mixture was pushed out of the compression cyl into the one beside it causing a lean condition in THAT cyl. So when the plug fired, there was really no gas or air at all making a lean burn. Since it was under a lot of load it made it worse. Running it in my driveway I didnt get any knock, but there was zero load, so I wouldnt expect it.

Hopefully that explains everything. But again, I may be optimistic because of what the alternative choices entail

 

[Don S]

Re: 88 2.3 OMC no compression in 2 cyl Advise needed

the reason I ask is because my local auto parts store can get me a full gasket set in 3 hours or less. But I will most likely need to order a set online for the actual OMC set.

I agree on pulling the head though, pretty much any of the possibilities would involve pulling it off anyway. I just have my fingers crossed that its the gasket and not something else.

Don't worry about gaskets yet, a gasket will not cause you to loose all compression. Even with a seariously blown head gasket you would have 30 to 60 lbs of compression. You have a valve or piston problem. Neither of which you are going to fix in 3 hours on a Sunday.
Besides, I don't think your 2.3 engine is the same 2.3 used in a Mustang, could be wrong about that though.

 

[danond]

Re: 88 2.3 OMC no compression in 2 cyl Advise needed

Pretty sure it's the same motor. Great little 4 banger.

 

[Stinky_1]

Re: 88 2.3 OMC no compression in 2 cyl Advise needed

there doesnt seem to be a lot of info about these on the net. But, from what I have found, they are the same engine as the 4 cyl mustang, and 4 cyl rangers.

Obviously they have some differences for the marine aspect. Specifically the fuel pump, and the cams come to mind. Also the exhaust manifold. The starter is also different.

Otherwise, I dont know though.

I have had a similar problem on an old Nissan I owned. It showed up the exact same way. So, I am holding my breath that it is the head gasket. But, would not be surprised to find a stuck valve or two. I "hear" this is a non interference engine. So, it wont be a bent valve. But, I can handle a stuck valve too. Just dont want to find problems with the block if at all possible.

Either way, thank you for the input. I will be pulling it apart monday and tuesday. Then Ill snap some pics of what I find and post them up. I am sure I am not the only one who has had this kind of problem. So, I know pics always helps people see what is going on.

 

[Stinky_1]

Re: 88 2.3 OMC no compression in 2 cyl Advise needed

so,

When I was pulling the head off on monday I ended up breaking the head off one of the head bolts. I didnt think it would cause me sooo much trouble! That whole bolt was corroded to the head. The only way we finally got it off was to drill it out all the way to the head. Then use a port-a-power with a bar in the exhaust port to split it. Then it popped off, and the bolt threaded right out!

Either way, this is what I found

Just as I had hoped! Split right between both the #1 and #2 cyl.

So, I am ordering up a new gasket set, and some new head bolts. Plan to have the boat going back together this weekend, and back on the water for monday or tuesday for its second lake test. I expect it should work fine once I get the carb adjusted properly as well.

Ill post up again once its all together and running.

Hopefully this will help someone else down the line

I got the head all cleaned up last night, and the block. So, once the new gaskets are in I am good to go

 

[purple turkey]

Re: 88 2.3 OMC no compression in 2 cyl Advise needed

Let us know how you do on that 2.3l. I have a 89 four winns with the same engine and am now discovering how hard it is to find part etc for this thing. Just spent 1600 bucks on a new exhaust manifold and engine coupler because all the used stuff I found was just as bad as what I had. How has your luck been with parts and did the regular auto gaskets work?

 

[Stinky_1]

Re: 88 2.3 OMC no compression in 2 cyl Advice needed

Re: 88 2.3 OMC no compression in 2 cyl Advice needed

So far it hasnt been a huge deal. I ended up going with an auto gasket set. And even that was difficult to get. none of the local guys had one, so they had it shipped from the other side of the country.

The only other part I have needed so far was a starter. And I just had the one on it re-wound, and new bearings put in.

If any repairs are going to be more than a couple hundred $$$ I will be yanking the motor and putting something else in. Hopefully a mercruiser 3.0. but cant find much info on swapping...... If it bolts into the outdrive the way it is, or if that needs to be changed too.

hopefully once the gasket is in the boat will only need maintenance things after that

 

[system-f]

Re: 88 2.3 OMC no compression in 2 cyl Advise needed

This doesn't really matter now, but the 2.3 ford used in the ranger (not sure if it is the same as mustang or marine) is a non interference engine. I have seen several belts blown on the 2.3 in a ranger at high rpm and it caused no internal damage.

 

[purple turkey]

Re: 88 2.3 OMC no compression in 2 cyl Advise needed

I have thought about the same thing, switching over to the 3.0l in the future, but you are right, not much info on swapping. I do know that would have to get from the bellhousing up, a complete ready to bolt in set up. But will definently be doing alot of reasearch on that. Good winter thing to do. As far as the fuel pump goes can you just pop in an electronic fuel pump? That is another no longer made part for the marine engine.

 

[Stinky_1]

Re: 88 2.3 OMC no compression in 2 cyl Advise needed

yep, electric fuel pumps are pretty easy to do. You want to stick with marine ones because they supposedly have fail safes in them. I have not actually done one of those yet, but the day my mechanical one fails I will know all about it!


Progress update on the head gasket.

I am sure glad this is non interference engine! I had it all back together, was getting no start, found out my belt tentioner was not really tight enough. So my timing was way out of whack, and everything was wrong. If it was an interference engine I would have a few bent valves to deal with now too!


So, the head gasket is in, I got it all timed right, and it idles all right. I need to work with the timing a bit more when I get a more reliable light. And also need to play with carb adjustments. Either way, it starts and runs. Which is good news in itself.

now for the bad news...... rising engine temp!

I pulled the intake water line off and found no water at all. Pulled one of the water circ lines, and also found no water at all.

Now my question starts in this setup....

Does the impeller in the outdrive actually suck any water up at all? If I pull the line off while the engine is running that goes INTO the inlet side of the pump, should I expect to have water coming in? Or, does the water pump itself do all the pumping? If that is the case, what is the purpose of the impeller?

Is there a good way generically to trouble shoot that system? I am doubting I will have a lot of luck getting an impeller for this. And it wont be only a day away. but I could have a water pump here in 3 hours. Installed in one, and at the lake by noon tomorrow.

Dont want to buy a new water pump though if thats not the problem.

Any tips or tricks are always welcome

 

[Stinky_1]

Re: 88 2.3 OMC no compression in 2 cyl Advise needed

so, I will answer my own question.

If you pop the top cover off the back of the drive you can see the housing for the impeller. The cover has 3 - 10mm nuts holding it on. Take those out, and the cover just lifts off. No gaskets or anything there to worry about.

Once you are there, you will see a nice little cover. There are 3 - 10mm nuts holding that cover on. You should also see a fitting coming out the left side, with a rubber hose on it. I assume that is the discharge side of the impeller. If you pop that off while the engine is running you should see water coming out.

If your like me, you will get nothing at all, or sput sput water coming out. this is not good. I did get some water into the system, and was able to verify that the actial water pump on the engine is working and circing water, so, the impeller is just not getting enough into the system in the first place.

Tomorrow I will be looking for local dealers who stock the part. I wont be holding my breathe though.

if I cant find anyone I will be getting one off ebay. there are a few sellers on there with new ones.

I have attached a pic of the housing cover. So you can see the nipple.

 

[danond]

Re: 88 2.3 OMC no compression in 2 cyl Advise needed

Why would you have a hard time getting any parts for the 2.3? It's one of Fords more popular 4 cylinder engines. Are you talking to a Bombardier dealer for your stuff or are you talking to auto mechanics and asking for boat parts?

To get parts for your OMC Cobra - call a Bombardier dealer and ask. They can order anything except the trim sender.

Your impeller is just a few clicks away. All the OMC Cobra/King Cobra impellers are still being produced. Easy parts to find. Yes, the impeller pulls water.

There are no tricks to getting your cooling system running properly. Get the right parts, put them in, enjoy a boat that cools properly. Less than that and you are gambling or it won't work!

 

[Stinky_1]

Re: 88 2.3 OMC no compression in 2 cyl Advise needed

Maybe I wasnt clear about my intention.

I wanted to have the boat on the water this afternoon (saturday). So, I was worried that I would not find someone locally who has the actual impeller in stock for me to go pick it up this morning.

I know I can get one online for cheap enough. But they are about a week away then because it needs to be shipped.

So far all the parts I have called the local marine shops for have also been a few days away because none of them seem to stock anything.

I am not worried at all about finding the impeller, I am certain that I can get one. The concern has been how long it takes to get it to me.

I suppose I do not have any control over that sort of thing anyway. But thats why I wanted to be sure it was in fact the impeller, and not the water pump on the engine. If it was the water pump I know I can get one right away. It would suck to be waiting a week for the impeller to show up only to find out the water pump was the faulty part.

Ill be calling around this morning to see if anyone has one of these impellers locally. Maybe its a common enough part that somebody sells one.

Is it typical for bombardier to carry OMC parts? or is that just your dealer locally that does? So far I have found that every shop I call doesnt worry about OMC anything. They allways suggest a different shop, and then thats hop suggests someone else.

Once I find the right dealer I will just go to them first. its just finding those guys.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: 88 2.3 OMC no compression in 2 cyl Advise needed

Its not going to be the water pump on the engine. That just circulates water...doesn't pump it from the drive. Are you pulling the hose off that comes from the drive to do your test? That is the one you want to pull. If you have power steering on your boat, there is a cooler inline with hose that goes back to the drive, if there is stuff clogged in there, it could be casuing your problem as well.

A Bombadier dealer won't be carrying OMC parts in stock unless they also carry larger boat parts. Bombardier took over OMC parts but it means nothing about the dealers carrying them. Bombadier is the supplier to marine shops that choose to carry the parts.

 

[Stinky_1]

Re: 88 2.3 OMC no compression in 2 cyl Advise needed

no power steering.

yes, I pulled the line from the out drive that feeds the water system, and got nothing at all.

I then pulled that line that comes right off the impeller housing shown in the pic above, no water there either. Every once in a while, if I had higher rpm's it would blub water out of it, but not a steady flow as I would expect.

I didnt have much luck calling around today. bombardier dealer didnt have any in stock, and cant get them any faster than any of the online retailers.

So, Ill be looking on line.

I found these guys

http://www.boatparts.ca/index.html

they say they can overnight anything to me. Plus they can ship from within canada. Bringin stuff up from the states tends to put at least an extra day in the shipment times.

Ill get them on the phone first thing monday morning their time, and hopefully have the part tuesday afternoon. Then I can be on the water later that evening.