88 Capri w/ 305 V8 - starting, idling problems when warmed up

[karges]

My old Capri runs pretty well, except that it will often die when put into forward or reverse gear, especially after it has been run awhile. Today after pulling kids on tubes for an hour, it cut when put into forward as usual, but then would die after starting over & over again, leaving us stranded on the water for an hour until I assume it cooled down a bit and I managed to get it into forward without cutting out. I had also bumped up the idle adjustment a bit hoping that might get it through the shifting sequence without dying.

Would appreciate any thoughts. Maybe it just needs a major tuneup?

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: 88 Capri w/ 305 V8 - starting, idling problems when warmed up

Howdy,

Welcome to iboats!!




Well, if you have not done a major tune up recently, you might just do it anyway.


Raising the idle speed will eventually damage your vertical drive. ( You don't want it turning any more than about 650 RPM idle).....
If it dies going into gear, it's usually due to a binding lower shift cable that subsequently causes the ESA to activate going into gear.

If the engine hasn't been tuned up recently, do that first. Then investigate getting the lower shift cable replaced.

It would be good to also understand how the Cobra shifts into and out of gear. Read the following info.... http://www.hastings.org/~stuart/cobra/


Regards,


Rick

 

[karges]

Re: 88 Capri w/ 305 V8 - starting, idling problems when warmed up

Thanks very much Rick, will dial down the idle! Alot of info to digest in that link for a beginner mechanic! This engine seems to run best when its cold. Maybe a tune up will help with the idling problems when warm? Do you recommend the electronic ignition retrofit for these engines, or just stick with the "points" system? Thanks again for sharing your knowlege. Chris

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: 88 Capri w/ 305 V8 - starting, idling problems when warmed up

Thanks very much Rick, will dial down the idle! Alot of info to digest in that link for a beginner mechanic! This engine seems to run best when its cold. Maybe a tune up will help with the idling problems when warm? Do you recommend the electronic ignition retrofit for these engines, or just stick with the "points" system? Thanks again for sharing your knowlege. Chris

My guess would be your automatic choke is not performing like it should or the carb just needs a rebuild. (I only boat in warm weather......I disconnected my auto-choke and adjusted it completely out of the picture)

I have mixed feelings on the retrofit (Pertronix etc) electronic ignition. A points system set up properly will work well for many years. You could still do it but I would fix the real problem first.....which is most likely carburetion.

If the engine quits going into gear, you most likely need to replace/adjust the lower shift cable...........it's probably NOT out of adjustment though.....once adjusted, they stay that way.

 

[karges]

Re: 88 Capri w/ 305 V8 - starting, idling problems when warmed up

Hey Rick is it difficult to disconnect the auto choke? Thx again, Chris

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: 88 Capri w/ 305 V8 - starting, idling problems when warmed up

Hey Rick is it difficult to disconnect the auto choke? Thx again, Chris

It's fairly easy. It's just a set of linkages that close the choke plate when the choke actuator is cold. When it warms (either electrically or from the "heat tube") a bi-metallic strip moves the choke plate open. The whole mess is adjustable and instead of disconnecting, you can just adjust it out of the picture. you have either a 2bbl or 4bbl carb but the choke works the same on most carb.

Your problem is probably NOT related to the choke if the engine dies when going into gear. It's more likely related to the ESA actuating (when it shouldn't) caused by a sticky (read-defective) lower shift cable.

You should find and fix the problem before messing with the choke.

 

[karges]

Re: 88 Capri w/ 305 V8 - starting, idling problems when warmed up

Copy that. Its just funny, the engine idles, runs, and shifts fine out of the dock, and continues for a while longer while pulling wakeboarders, starting & stopping etc. And then after 45 - 1 hr of that, It won't maintain idle when starting, just turns over and dies immediately, and if it does maintain idle, its weak and cuts immediately when put into gear. We a re then forced to sit around for an hour while it cools (presumably) and then it will idle and just barely get into gear w/out dying so I can get back to the dock. VERY frustrating. Leads me to believe the problem isn't with the ESA or lower cable?

My friend and co-owner does know about engines and is of the mind that regular tuneups are overrated. His running joke w/ me, the non-mechanic is "Hey Chris, why don't you give the engine a hug, maybe that will help." That being said in the 3 years we've owned the boat, aside from fluid changes, we have only tweaked the timing once, pretty much by ear. And the boat until now has run well with the warm idle issue much less pronounced. In other words until now it hasn't left me stranded out on the water for an hour. The former owner said the carb was rebuilt, so probably about 4 years ago.

Anyway I'm rambling, I think I'll talk my buddy into doing a full tune and see if that helps. I got an estimate of $499 for a tuneup from a local shop. Jeez, the boat is barely even worth $500! Any other insights you might have are always appreciated!

Chris

 

[karges]

Re: 88 Capri w/ 305 V8 - starting, idling problems when warmed up

Oh the other thing I was wondering about was that we have never changed the fuel filter. The boat has been in the water year-round for the last 2 years w/ Sta-bil in the gas during the winter and regular monthly startings of the engine. Could the fuel filter be an issue?

Thanks!

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: 88 Capri w/ 305 V8 - starting, idling problems when warmed up

Hmm,

Well, you might have a few other things going on there also.

First of all, Western Wa gasoline WILL contain up to 10% ethanol. It used to be only during something like OCT-APR but I think it's all year now unless you can get an assurance from where ever you get the gas that they've got NON-ethanol fuel for boats etc.

http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=WA (I don't know how accurate the list is or if any of them still provide non-eth gas)

I haven't had any problems with E10 at all but I never store the boat with the tank full. And it's inside all year on a trailer.

My friend and co-owner does know about engines and is of the mind that regular tuneups are overrated.

Evidently not huh? (That concept only works with newer EFI/Electronic ignition engines.......the only things you can change is wires and plugs...... ) ............And tweaking the timing "by-ear" is a great way to destroy the engine from detonation....


I wouldn't say you have a "problem" with the ESA if it "stumbles" the engine coming out of gear (like it should)

But if the shift-actuator is moving far enough to stumble the engine going into gear, it's taking too much force to move the shift cable either due to the cable itself binding when the engine compartment gets warm from normal running, OR the drive itself is binding internally and taking too much effort to move the shift mechanism inside when it's warm.....

My next questions would be when was the drive oil was replaced last? (ans should be LAST FALL)

When was the drive PULLED and the bellows, U-joints, Alignment, and gimbal bearing checked? (ans should be LAST FALL)

Has anyone pulled the risers in the last 3 years and inspected the contact surfaces etc? (and replaced the riser gaskets......do not use the old ones)



The last few items are normal manufacturer recommended yearly service. Fuel filters are also part of it!

As an aside, I didn't change my drive oil last year nor did I pull my drive. but my boat didn't get used much at all last year and it doesn't sit in the water. If mine sat in the water all year, I would pull the drive EVERY year religiously.


I'd say you need to do a normal tune up before you mess with the other stuff but the Cobra shift system is VERY sensitive to lower shift cable shift effort. If it's too high it'll cause all sorts of problems.

 

[karges]

Re: 88 Capri w/ 305 V8 - starting, idling problems when warmed up

Thanks Rick, I think a tuneup by a qualified pro is the first order of business, along with new fuel filter and we'll see how she runs after that. Will have them look over the drive & cables as well. I replaced the drive oil winter before last, so its due for that this year. The boat doesn't get a ton of use, our summers are pretty short here. I'll letcha know! Thx Chris

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: 88 Capri w/ 305 V8 - starting, idling problems when warmed up

The boat doesn't get a ton of use, our summers are pretty short here. I'll letcha know! Thx Chris

Yeah! no kidding!

I haven't had mine off the trailer even yet!!

I've lived here since 1986. I'm ready to go someplace where there are actual Summers!!!

Good luck!


Rick