88 Force 125- Did My Starter die?

[Bry21317]

I was at the lake yesterday, and we cruised about 8 miles down to a cove to cook out. We then got there, cooked and let all the kids play for a while. We were parked for about 2+ Hours.

I have dual Batteries with a Perko Dual Battery switch on them. We got back in the boat and I went to fire my engine up and it had a hard time trying to start, after about 2 cranks, the batteries were both completely dead. They would not even run my T/T to raise the motor. So my buddy pulled out the Jumper cables and tried to jump me from his boat. We tried letting them charge for a about 30 minutes. Still nothing. the starter will spin the gear, but it is not popping up into the Flywheel.

He towed us back, and when I got to the house I hooked up the battery charger, thats built in. The battieries are now fully charged. I then tried to start it this mroning and the same thing happens, the Starter will nto fully engage, and it sure doesn't sound like its spinning as fast as it normally does.

I have never replaced or had a problem with this starter. Do you guys have any idea if this is what it is? Also, can't you rebuild these starters?


Thanks,
Bryan

 

[Bry21317]

Re: 88 Force 125- Did My Starter die?

I have just ready through a bunch of posts on this, and thought I would add this. I checked all electrical connections, they are all tight and corrosion free.

I also regularly lube the Shaft that the worm gear slides up and down on, this is lubed up and ok.

Now that I think about it, the first time cranking this engine forever, it has seemed a little slow. Once it has been started the first time, it fires right up like the starter would spin faster, once the motor had run that day.

Not sure if this will help or not, but thought it might be better information to someone.

Thanks,
Bryan

 

[eurolarva]

Re: 88 Force 125- Did My Starter die?

You have three choices. Replace the starter, have yours rebuilt or take yours apart and clean it. New aftermarket starter gonna be about 125 dollars, rebuilding yours probably about 90. To clean take it apart (probably two long screws holding it together and onto the mount. Clean the brushes, springs, commutator and armatures with either contact cleaner or WD40. Do not use any lubricant (note WD40 is not a lubricant) Use clean rags, and qtips to clean all the gunk out. Take some monofiliment fishing line and tie the brushes and springs in place. Make sure you put the cover on the way you took it off (some merc starters it is possible to put the cover on backwards reversing the poles which will make the starter spin backwards). Once the cover is over the magnets cut the mono filiment line and remove it then finish putting the starter back together. If starter has a busted brush wire I doubt you will be able to find a replacement for it however once you get it apart and if you have any problems just post back here.

 

[J.L.]

Re: 88 Force 125- Did My Starter die?

Byan,
First you should check the amp draw to the starter while cranking. It should be about 100 amps. Problem is you shouldn't drain two fully charged batteries down that fast with even a bad starter. Check both of your batteries that they are good. local parts store will usually do a load test on your batteries for free. It really shouldn't take much of a battery to crank this engine.
If you can't check for cranking amps and you know your batteries are good, go ahead and take apart your starter. If the starter is a prestolite you will not find parts, and shouldn't put money in it anyway. The later starter is a bosche and parts are plentiful and similar to merc and omc starters. These starters dont like worn bushings or brushes. Aftermarket brushes and brush holder assm. are available, but the top plate with the bushing is OE and mostly NLA. Rebuilt starters are only as good as the guy building it!!
Jerry

 

[Bry21317]

Re: 88 Force 125- Did My Starter die?

I pulled the starter off this morning, and took it apart, or at least the bottom off of it. The springs and brushes popped right up. It had alot of material floating around from the Magnets that had been worn down it seems like. I did not remove the top bolt that holds the gear on, so I could not pull the armature all the way through.

My starter looks exactly like this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-...tegoryZ31284QQihZ003QQitemZ130022374495QQrdZ1

The numbers on it state: 616955 and then right below that there is another number that is 618 87, both in a yellow color on the black.

There are no other numbers or names on any part that I can find.

It does also look now that I have already opened it up, that it could be put back on in reverse for sure. There are no keys or anything that I see. I now don't know how it would go back together, to tell the truth. as when it came off it popped off pretty quick.

Thanks,
Bryan

 

[eurolarva]

Re: 88 Force 125- Did My Starter die?

Ebasic has a new one for $139. Here is a diagram of the starter

The springs will go in small indents in the side of the housing and the brushes will fit over them. The brushes will move in and out of their designated slots. Here is where you have to use monofiliment fishing line to hold them in place while you attempt to put the cover on. The only thing that should have shot out of the starter is two springs. The brushes are little black pieces of carbon attached to a wire braid or just wire. If this wire is broken or the carbon tips have come off this means your starter was shot. If you need more help repost. I have done about a dozen of these starters and the first was the hardest .

 

[Bry21317]

Re: 88 Force 125- Did My Starter die?

Thanks for all the great information on this. The springs are all that came out and alot of debris.

Do you need to do anything to the starter other than replace the brushes to rebuild it?

Also, where can I get the rebuild kits if this is all I need to do?

Should I rebuild it or replace it with a new one from Ebay?

Bryan

 

[eurolarva]

Re: 88 Force 125- Did My Starter die?

You probably dont need to rebuild it. Usually the problem is it gets real dirty then the humidity gets in there and causes all the carbon dust to get sticky. Part number 7 above is the brushes. The main thing you are looking for is that they both are about the same size and the part that rubs against the armature (part number 4) are slightly rounded and have no burrs. Light sanding will take out any imperfections. Use WD40 and qtips to clean all the black crap out of it and make sure you get all the WD40 out of it as well. Brush kit is part number 7 above and is part number 898265016 and is availible from Mercury outboard dealers for about $23. I would clean and reassemble it. Part number two is the gear that rides up the bendix. That bendix should be cleaned with WD40 and then lightly oiled with a 3 and 1 or light weight oil. When you put it back together without the brush kit the starter should sound like it will make the motor do about 20 mph and should last another 10 years.

 

[J.L.]

Re: 88 Force 125- Did My Starter die?

You have a starter made by bosche or United Technologies. Fortunately the parts are interchangeable and you can get them from a Force or Mercury dealer. There are aftermarket brushes and brush holder assemblies available from MIS and Arco. Check carefully the bushing in the brush holder assembly, if it is worn or egg shaped, opt for the entire assembly that is already assembled with the brushes installed.You can can get those from a boat dealer via their aftermarket parts distributor. You can reassemble the starter using a piece of sheet metal with a slot cut out to clear the armature shaft where it goes in the bushing of the brush holder assembly. Use the sheet metal tool to hold down the brushes and springs in their holder while installing the bottom of the starter together.You can also pull the entire armature out of the field with the top cap and starter drive. Be careful not to damage the fragile magnets when you reinstall it. You will find alignment marks on both caps and the field to get everything in alignment. Should be no danger of starter running backwards.
If the debris in the starter was magnet and not brush dust, you have serious problems with bushings. The bushings keep the armature centered at top and bottom and do not allow to contact the field magnets. Contact drags the armature and creates excessive amp draw, burning up brushes and the armature windings. Look for heat damage in the brush area. Springs should not be weak and still have their temper. Always use new brush springs when you can
Jerry

 

[Kajun37]

Re: 88 Force 125- Did My Starter die?

i had mine rebuilt at a local alternator/starter place for $90...and it has a year warranty...i kinda like having that warranty.

 

[Bry21317]

Re: 88 Force 125- Did My Starter die?

The brushes are definetly worn down some. I have not removed part 4 yet, as the nut that hold the gear on, is still attached so I hadn't removed it yet.

It is very dirty inside, very very dusty with small chunks, could have been lots of dust that got stuck together to make larger pieces. It is very humid here in NC also, so that could come into play.

I will try cleaning it really well with WD 40 and then wash it all out with the no residue contact cleaner.

I will see what this does. The brushes look worn on the top side. I will see if I can get some pics and take the other piece apart.

Thanks for the help.

Bryan

 

[eurolarva]

Re: 88 Force 125- Did My Starter die?

FYI it is going to look worn. Think how many times it has been started and look how long it has lasted. I have seen starters work when the brushes were just tiny nubs. If you can just spray the contact cleaner to the exposed parts you have now. Spray a ton of it and let it dry without taking it apart further then put it back on the motor and see if it improves. My chrysler is almost 40 years old and I did the starter for the first time last year and it did what you said yours did. I used a half a can of WD40 and about 50 QTips and now the starter sounds like it could throw the motor off the boat.

 

[Bry21317]

Re: 88 Force 125- Did My Starter die?

What part do you clean with the Q Tips? The bottom of 4? This is what I am thinking.

I will try it, not sure when I will get time, maybe some later tonight not to sure, when I will start the cleaning process. I will let you know how it goes though.

Thanks,
Bryan

 

[eurolarva]

Re: 88 Force 125- Did My Starter die?

Qtips for areas like the spring holders. Any area where it is tough to get a rag into. Wipe the commutator, armature the brushes the springs and the wires down. You will probably find carbon dust everywhere in the starter.

 

[Bry21317]

Re: 88 Force 125- Did My Starter die?

Thanks Eurolava,
I plan on trying this over the weekend, and I will let you know what happens. I just have not had anytime, with the wife working at night now, and having to watch the kids, lol. Kids always make things harder.

I will do as you say, and see if it won't run like it should.

Thanks,
Bryan

 

[Bry21317]

Re: 88 Force 125- Did My Starter die?

Well I cleaned it up really good, took a while and what a pain the *** to get the spring loaded brushes back in. I ended up giving up on the Fishing line, and using 2 old credit cards, I taped down very tight, to hold them tight. I then slid them out the sides, and pulled the tape off the outside, holding them tight. Just a trick I found worked for me.

Still no go, the starter still sounds the exact same. it will turn, but will not turn fast enough to start it. The brushes looked brand new, I got all the carbon off them, and the bottom of the Aramature where they touch. So it should be good.

Any other ideas, as I may just be purchasing a new one now.

Thanks,
Bryan

 

[eurolarva]

Re: 88 Force 125- Did My Starter die?

Cleaning will usually fix it especially with good brushes and wires. Could be a bearing going bad. Mercury still sells starters and they are around 250 dollars. You can try ebasic and get an aftermarket one for around half that

http://bpi.ebasicpower.com/mm5/merc...&Product_Code=MESS2069M&Category_Code=OB-MER1

 

[Bry21317]

Re: 88 Force 125- Did My Starter die?

Hey eurolava,
Thanks for all the help. I just gave up and bought one off of Ebay, brand new from a company in TN, for 104 with shipping.

Not bad at all I thought. The company that you listed, for 139, was also in NC so I would have gotten stuck with the tax on top of 35 more.

Do you want my old starter or want to try to fix it as a backup, lol. it looks good inside now, thats its pretty darn clean.

Thanks,
Bryan

 

[eurolarva]

Re: 88 Force 125- Did My Starter die?

I have a chrysler. The starter is of no use to me. I am just bummed the cleaning did not work. At least it did not cost you anything to try cleaning it and now you are certified to repair alternators and starters. Good luck with the new starter. I hope that fixes the problem.

 

[Bry21317]

Re: 88 Force 125- Did My Starter die?

Eurolava,
I apreciate all the help you gave me on this. Yea, to bad the cleaning did not work. I got one off Ebay, ordered it after 4pm on Thursday it arived Friday morning, ad it was coming from TN and I am in NC, so that was quick packing for them to get it out the door to me. It is brand spanking new, not a single drop of oil anywhere on it or anything. I took the Fam to the beach this past weekend so I didn't get a chance to put it on to see what would happen. I will then try to put the new one on and hope it all works. I will try it tonight or tommorrow, when I get a chance. I am hoping this is it for sure.

Thanks for all the help though.

Bryan