88hp Johnson -- PICS ADDED-- it caught on fire today at the ramp

[graham12]

I searched, but I feel I need some custom advice. Sorry for the length, but I thought this was mostly pertinent info.

I acquired this boat last fall, and the motor is a Johnson 88hp, the previous owner thought the model year was also 88. It doesn't have the oil mixer deal, I have to mix oil and gas in the main tank.

I had the carbs rebuilt, plugs and wires changed, as well as a few other things I'm not thinking of. It ran pretty good up until about a month ago I took it out one night and got out on the water and couldn't get it started. My buddy and I tried various things for hours to no avail. We cranked it all night, dumping fuel into the carbs--nothing.

Got home and realized I had the kill switch tripped. Put the clip in, turned the key and it fired right up and blew about a quart of gas and oil on the back wall of my garage.....

A month later (yesterday), I took it out on the water and it didn't want to start right up. I choked it and it fired up, but it only ran for about 30 seconds, and cut out. I got it to almost start a couple times after that, but it just never fired right---like it needed to blow something out like phlegm, but I couldn't get it to that point.

What should I check to troubleshoot for my problem? Thanks in advance.

 

[Daviet]

Re: 88hp Johnson -- trouble starting

Re: 88hp Johnson -- trouble starting

Start with some basic checks, compression,spark and fuel delivery. Make sure your battery is fully charged. Look at spark plugs, are they fouled?

 

[graham12]

Re: 88hp Johnson -- trouble starting

Re: 88hp Johnson -- trouble starting

Well, figured that out. It was the fitting that goes into the motor from the fuel line...thanks for your help.

I made a bit of a mistake though....in trying to troubleshoot/repair the original problem, we used some starter fluid and thought we flooded it before we figured out that it was that fitting. We drained the bowls in the process--keep note of that. lol

Went on the lake today for 5 hrs or so, ran all over the place, and all was great until I was pulling into the ramp. After having been docked already across the marina for a few minutes, I idled over to the ramp and the motor started on FIRE! I didn't realize it until I saw the smoke and by the time I pulled the cover, the foam inside it was half burnt away.

The fire seemed to take place on the side of the motor that we drained the carb bowls on, so I am hoping that's what caused it. Nothing was terribly damaged on the actual motor itself. It ran fine with the cover off, and I put it up on the trailer afterward with no problems.

Do I need to replace that insulation on the underside of the cover? I think that stuff probably kept the fire from getting bad. Anything else I should do?

PS- I learned my lesson already tonight, so please keep the flamage to a minimum. lol

 

[kenmyfam]

Re: 88hp Johnson -- trouble starting....UPDATE-- it caught on fire today at the ramp

Re: 88hp Johnson -- trouble starting....UPDATE-- it caught on fire today at the ramp

You need to asses a couple of things.
What actually caused the fire and fix the issue.
What damage has been done due to the fire. I know you sait it started up again etc etc but you may have some wiring that is now charred up and could fail on you in the future.
Replacing the foam is a good idea.
Just my 2 cents though

 

[graham12]

Re: 88hp Johnson -- trouble starting....UPDATE-- it caught on fire today at the ramp

Re: 88hp Johnson -- trouble starting....UPDATE-- it caught on fire today at the ramp

I gave it a good once over in the garage last night, and the only damage I found was one group of wires that goes up to that big gear on the top of the motor, just the electrical tape that bound them together was melted through on one side, but the actual wires looked fine.

I was gonna put the muffs on it today, and let it run for a few and see what happens...if nothing does happen, should I just assume it was the fuel spillage?

How would I replace that foam? Is there an official name for it? Thanks.

 

[kenmyfam]

Re: 88hp Johnson -- trouble starting....UPDATE-- it caught on fire today at the ramp

Re: 88hp Johnson -- trouble starting....UPDATE-- it caught on fire today at the ramp

I would be carefully checking for a fuel leak somewhere in there and not assuming that it was previously spilled fuel. Use a high powered trouble light to see what is happening in there. It only takes an occasional drip to become a fire hazard and disaster waiting to happen.
Use this link to locate the foam.

http://shop2.evinrude.com/ext/index.aspx?s1=bf6ad09c53cead335fcfd8a6471c0f7f

 

[crxess]

Re: 88hp Johnson -- trouble starting....UPDATE-- it caught on fire today at the ramp

Re: 88hp Johnson -- trouble starting....UPDATE-- it caught on fire today at the ramp

Went on the lake today for 5 hrs or so, ran all over the place, and all was great until I was pulling into the ramp.

It is highly unlikely spilled fuel caused this. Look carefully for the flash point.(the point where the fire started) Probably just below the worst of the damage. You are lookin for cracked line, bad gasket......anything that could leak fuel under pressure.
Also of concern is - What ignited it? Loose wire, fualty spark plug wire arching? Excessive heat in an area?

You can put a match out in gas on a cold day(Don't try this) so something had to act as the trigger.

 

[kenmyfam]

Re: 88hp Johnson -- trouble starting....UPDATE-- it caught on fire today at the ramp

Re: 88hp Johnson -- trouble starting....UPDATE-- it caught on fire today at the ramp

You can put a match out in gas on a cold day(Don't try this) so something had to act as the trigger.

Naked flame to find a gas leak = very bad idea !!!!
Don't do it.

 

[graham12]

Re: 88hp Johnson -- trouble starting....UPDATE-- it caught on fire today at the ramp

Re: 88hp Johnson -- trouble starting....UPDATE-- it caught on fire today at the ramp

My dad and a buddy of mine both said that--look for the flash point. And I think I may have found it....

Here's the inside of the cover:

The side of the motor where the fire was:

And then look at where the heat seemed to be concentrated:

Based on the above, it appears that these wires are to blame, but they're not burnt...

 

[graham12]

Re: 88hp Johnson -- trouble starting....UPDATE-- it caught on fire today at the ramp

Re: 88hp Johnson -- trouble starting....UPDATE-- it caught on fire today at the ramp

Maybe it was something under those wires, as somebody said that it would be right below the worst damage....

I posted the pics because I don't know a whole lot about what I'm looking at here.

 

[ScottinAZ]

Re: 88hp Johnson -- trouble starting....UPDATE-- it caught on fire today at the ramp

Re: 88hp Johnson -- trouble starting....UPDATE-- it caught on fire today at the ramp

I dont see one in your pics, but is the fuel enrichment solenoid (often called the choke) in that area? On my 1982 Evinbrude 115, it is in the exact area that has the worst of the damage on yours, but my wiring is different, If yours is there, or close by, it may be leaking.

 

[graham12]

Re: 88hp Johnson -- trouble starting....PICS ADDED-- it caught on fire today at the r

Re: 88hp Johnson -- trouble starting....PICS ADDED-- it caught on fire today at the r

When the choke is engaged, the click sound is closer to the front, where the carbs are. I don't know if that means that the solenoid is up there too though.

 

[graham12]

Re: 88hp Johnson -- PICS ADDED-- it caught on fire today at the ramp

I just talked to the guy who worked on it for me to get it ready for the water, and he said that there's probably resistance in one of those wires, either by bad connection, or corrosion (it was used in saltwater before), and that the wire block got hot enough to catch the foam on fire.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: 88hp Johnson -- PICS ADDED-- it caught on fire today at the ramp

not the primer solenoid, it is up front on top of the air silencer.

if the motor had been tilted and fuel line connected, the carbs could have overflowed, and there was gas in the bottom of the cowl, one little spark could have set that off.

 

[jonesg]

Re: 88hp Johnson -- PICS ADDED-- it caught on fire today at the ramp

not the primer solenoid, it is up front on top of the air silencer.

if the motor had been tilted and fuel line connected, the carbs could have overflowed, and there was gas in the bottom of the cowl, one little spark could have set that off.

Exactly my thoughts too, the fire concentrated where the fuel pooled.
I've seen fuel pour out of my carbs, before I rebuilt them.
I'd get half a cup of gas in the pan.

 

[HybridMX6]

Re: 88hp Johnson -- PICS ADDED-- it caught on fire today at the ramp

So the question still remains, what caused the ignition to start the fire? Something had to have shorted or thrown a spark if it ignited fuel sitting in the pan.
I do not feel very confident in the mechanics decision that the terminal block got hot enough to catch the foam on fire, when none of the wires in that area appear burned.
I'd like to ask a question as well here, was there a visible flame from this fire or more like smoldering smoke, with no actual flame visible? That could explain the foam melting and some electrical tape getting messed up, but no sign on actual burnt wires. That would lend to the mechanics theory of hot teminal block.

 

[graham12]

Re: 88hp Johnson -- PICS ADDED-- it caught on fire today at the ramp

Yeah, I think I may have found the short. The guy that worked on it for me helped me track it down. It was the hotwire off the starter solenoid that goes up into that wiring harness.

When I peeled the tape back on the wires, I saw that the brown wire that was corroded was actually red, not brown----it was burnt.

Yes it was smoldering, more than flaming. Small flames.

 

[ezeke]

Re: 88hp Johnson -- PICS ADDED-- it caught on fire today at the ramp

Take the rectifier off and look at it from the underside. If it is melted, the wiring in it fused, allowing the battery voltage to pass and start the fire.