89 85hp force overheating + issues

[soflaguy]

I've been recommissioning this motor after it sat for 5 years. I've been through everything, some things twice.
I'm trying to deal with adjusting the idle now after cleaning the carbs but the overheat alarm keeps sounding intermitently.
First, i had found that my 1st new impeller had split. I had known that I didn't see water coming out of the exhausy holes. A new impeller and new gaskets, seal and I am getting a good spray now. It doesn't overheat right away. I haven'tyet been able to get it in gear. I'm just idling right now. Earlier today, I found out that cylinder 3 was not firing. Found the problem, a short where the CD wire was pinched by a screw of the fuel pump. Fixed that, started her up and and had the highest rpm's so far. Had to throttle back it was idling over 2000 rpm's. I cannot get the throttle back to center position or even close without it cutting out. I know I need to adjust the idle mix but my manual says to do that in forward gear. I am unable to throttle back to put it in gear. As I'm waiting for it to warm up and try to slowly work the throttle back, it will sound the overheat alarm. It is too hot to touch so it definitely is overheated. Are these issues related? Do I have the link and sync confused? I have the Seloc manual and a US Marine manual for 3 cylinder motors.
One thing. The Seloc manual and the US Marine manual both show the thermostat in the opposite position from a micro-fiche I got of the parts and build sheet for my particular model from US Marine. It is an H model, a late model that resembles the L drive and the 1990 model. It has the thermostat turned opposite from the manual's position and it has a spring to hold the thermostat in place. Originally, I thought it had been done that way by a previous owner's mechanic. Then I saw it was positioned that way with the spring in my build sheet for the H model that was provided by the manufacturer.
I am getting the Clymer manual since I read here it explains the link and sync better. I've become confused. But I think my confusion is because of my throttle problem.
I haven't ever done timing. To anything. Could this be my big problem. I can't see how I could do the timing as long as I have this overheating.
Overheating?
Throttle position at control.
Can't put boat in gear.
It starts easily,decarbed with seafoam also. Last time I checked, compression was 135, 135, 130.
thanks.

 

[shytownborn]

Re: 89 85hp force overheating + issues

take the thermostat out and run it and see if it overheats

 

[soflaguy]

Re: 89 85hp force overheating + issues

Thats a good idea. Will try that tommorrow. I first tried muffs, then a tank. then a tank with muffs thinking the exhaust water might be too hot. Took it down to a canal near my house today. It ran longer but the alarm still went off. Was hoping to try to get it in gear through some fast shifting. Have yet to get out on the water at all. I'll post what I find. A logical step tp eliminate the discrepency of positions. I did read about a bypass groove should face up and I don't remember a groove.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 89 85hp force overheating + issues

Carbs can be pre-set cold.Turn in air screw.Back it out 1 and 1/8th turn.The air screws only adjust the air/fuel.
This should let you start and warm up.
If the RPMs are still at 2000 in neutral.Then adjust the towershaft screw and locknut.#4#5 Adjust to about 1200RPM in neutral.That's adjusts the RPM.
When you replaced the impeller did you check for blockage in the copper tube leading to the head?Was the pump connected to the copper tube?
Is the tube real loose,does it spin in place?How much wear in the pump and plate?Lot's of grooves,will let it suck air.The water pickup make sure that it isin't clogged.
Remove the temp sensor and make sure there is no corrosion under it.J

 

[soflaguy]

Re: 89 85hp force overheating + issues

When I replaced my impeller last, I did back flush water through the tube from the botttom of the tube and from the thermostat housing. Everything seemed clear. Yea, the copper tube was loose, could be wiggled but not turned so I thought it helld pretty good. I originally thought it was the culprit. I did replace the plastic tube on the pump housing with a much longer tube for the copper tube to slide into. I didn't see any grooves at all in the housing. Thing is, after the new impeller, gaskets and seals, I had water spay like I'd never seen before out of that motor. It was shooting water so much out of the 2 exhaust holes, I added the muffs in the tank because I was afraid the tank would run dry. Thanks for the tower shaft information. Which way should the screw be turned to increase or reduce the rpm's and should I try to throttle back as much as possible before messing with that. I'd read not to adjust that until I had done the idle mixture settings so thanks, I'll adjust to your settings and then adjust that screw on the tower. I was looking at that screw yesterday as I had a buddy throttle back slowly on the control while I watched what did what back at the motor. I saw that it quit when that screw touched the block. If I back that screw out more, should I be able to put the throttle control back to the neutral idle position in the center without it cutting out? If so, what rpm's are ideal at that position before its put in gear?

 

[soflaguy]

Re: 89 85hp force overheating + issues

I removed the thermostat and set the carbs out as suggested 1 1/8th. It would not start. I tried and tried til I had to recharge my battery. Didn't start at all, nothing. I'd had it running at least so I knew there was something happening. So I started all over with the link n sync stuff. Set the roller, cam, ect., checked the wiring, plugs, compression and spark too. At least by now I can run through these tests and adjustments. But you'd be surprised what you take for granted. After setting the cam and roller, I checked the throttle and as I did I looked down the throat of the carbs to see that the top carb's butterfly was not where it should be. I'd done the manual thing. Pull the cam back, loosen the throttle shaft's screws and tighten the 2 so that all 3 butterflies opened the same. The top screw seemed tight but was actually stripped and so it slid when the throttle was advanced and the butterfly had remained closed. How long had that been like that? Fixed it, checked the roller and cam, charged the battery and it started right up. Lots of smoke and fumes for a long time while I sat there waiting for the overheat alarm. Never happened. I stopped the motor. Put in the thermostat as it had always been with the big spring and stuff. Started it again and waited.No alarm. I did pull the temp sensor and it looked very clean. I liked seeing it though since it was very different from what I expected. I did not touch the head and wished I'd checked it in case I messed up the sender/alarm. The idle after warmed up and in neutral stayed between 700 and 900 rpm's. It would idle and it had misses and surged a couple of times. This was the longest its run in over 5 years. Tommorrow to the water where I'll put it in gear and adjust idle and timing. Tonight I'll read up on my printouts about it. But I'll be sleeping good. Thanks.
Now, I adjust the idle mixture screws in idle or forward. How much throttle or RPM's when I begin to adjust them? And WOT is in foward gear also

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 89 85hp force overheating + issues

Start it up and let it warm.Then in gear set the air screws.Idle is about 750 rpm in gear in the water.
Wot should be about 5500rpm.That will depend on the load and prop.
Load is about 1-2 adults 1-2 kids a cooler maybe a dog. 1/2 tank of gas .
Basically don't overload.Take it out and run it,see what happens.J

 

[soflaguy]

Re: 89 85hp force overheating + issues

Finally got it back to the water for timing and mixture adjustment. Started up no problem. Warmed up to idle around 900-1000rpms. Sounded pretty good as is but I'd never put it in gear yet. I had a friend along and I was gonna look at the timing while he throttled it up. Never heard a word from him about what rpm's were up to but I listened as it got louder and stayed there awhile. I'd asked him to put it up all the way so I figured thats where it was. I'd already seen that it wasn't TDC at idle so I figured it wouldn't be 30BTDC and it wasn't even close. It cut out, became hard to start although it would start and then cut out after 15 -30 sec. I got it to start and throttled it up in neutral only to hear it surge and bog down and surge and bog down , then cut out. No overheat though! I waited awhile and it started. I went back to look at it and saw what I thought was water shoot out the side. Upon closer examination, I could see that the bowl in the middle carb was leaking gas, alot of gas. Stuck bowl? Needle? Broken reed? (I'm checkin the reeds this time) Back to the carb dismantle shop today in my sweltering driveway. I'll be back.....

 

[soflaguy]

Re: 89 85hp force overheating + issues

Opened up the carbs and only saw a few tiny specks of something in the bowl of the leaking carb. I took them all apart and cleaned them. I removed the floats checking the needle and its movement.
Put it all back together. Started it up. It started right away but then it throttled up above 4,000 rpms. There was alot of smoke. I throttled it back and it cut out. I adjusted my tank cause the exhaust edge was real close to the exhaust and I wondered if it wasn't getting out good. Cranked it, it started again and same thing. The 3rd time I did it, I just let it stay throttled up and watched the rpm's hit 4500 then it kinda dropped, surged, dropped and cut out. I checked the roller, cam, idle mixture needles - 1 turn out. The butterfies seem right but also look a little more open than they did when I was starting it before today. I'm gonna try the shorten the tie bar from the throttle to the cam and adjust the roller if I can center it and have the roller barely touch. I thought I had it that way but I'm stumped and hope somebody can give me a clue of what this is symptomatic of. I did see that my idle mixture screws have a slight indentation from seating and adjusting it. It is just barely visible. I only saw it because I checked with a magnifying glass. I hope somebody will chime in here. Don't know whether starting a new thread is the right thing to do. I did hear a strange sound when I started it the first time after I shut it down. Sounded like a vacumn or air horn muffled. I thought it was the exhaust when my tank wall was so close to the exhaust. I haven't re-checked my compression. Would I have such a response rpm wise if I'd messed up a cylinder? I start the motor in neutral with the throttle handle pushed forward as far as it will go. I've started it this way before. Should I try to start it with less throttle? I'm not sure it will start that way.

 

[87blf125]

Re: 89 85hp force overheating + issues

did you re set your floats?

 

[soflaguy]

Re: 89 85hp force overheating + issues

I did not re=set them. I took them off and tried to measure them. They seemed close to what the manual called for. I only had a small clear ruler so wasn't sure. They did all look the same except for one. If you can tell me an easy way to set them, I'll go back in. The floats are old they look like but the needles have rubber tips like to rebuild sets provide. I measured the floar drop at the jet and then the meaurement with them upside down. I had read on a post that a guy with rubber tipped needles used 1/2" as his measurement upside down. Mine seemed close to that. From the lip of the carb to the bottom of the float. I did see a needle stick when I put it back in. I wiped it down and played with it and it was moving freely I thought when I put the bowl on. What do you think?