89 OMC 5.8L Cobra Lots of Water in Oil

[whitejamie99]

Just bought this boat (89 VIP) and didn't do my homework. When changing the oil a lot of clear water came out (two full oil change containers) before getting to the oil which looked like a chocolate shake. Replaced filter and oil and got it started on the muffs and noticed a lot of water coming from both forward core plugs. My research indicates numerous causes more than likely caused by freeze damage, cracked block, cracked heads or cracked exhaust manifold. My question is how to diagnose without removing the engine. Also there is no telling how long the water was in there and I'm afraid of rust in the crank and rods, etc. I'm prepared to buy a new long block but dont want to unless no other way out.

 

[duped]

Re: 89 OMC 5.8L Cobra Lots of Water in Oil

I think you already diagnosed it for yourself there...two core plugs popped and a crankcase full of water basically says it all. But, at this point, I would change the oil again, tap the core plugs back in, and see what you get after running it a bit. On the off chance the water got there by rain, and not a crack in the block, it wont be back. But I would expect it to be...core plugs dont typically pop out for no reason, especially not two.

I am very sorry to hear.

I dont know how much you have into this boat, but with a ford engine thats obsolete and expensive to buy parts for...I'd be looking for an out. Assuming the block is freeze damaged, which I would be certain it is, the manifolds are going to be trash as well.

 

[Bondo]

Re: 89 OMC 5.8L Cobra Lots of Water in Oil

My question is how to diagnose without removing the engine.

Ayuh,.... Pull the motor,...
Even if it ain't junk, ya gotta put the core plugs back in, 'n it's easier out of the hull...

 

[Bridar]

Re: 89 OMC 5.8L Cobra Lots of Water in Oil

The one thing I'd do before pulling the motor is a compression test. That'll give you some indication of the condition of the block and if you have blown head gasket(s). If the engine still turns over and the compression is still good, then the water wasn't likely in there very long.

Pressure testing the cooling system will also provide clues as to where the water was getting in. There is a chance that the manifolds were leaking water in (through the exhaust valves) before the block froze and popped out the core plugs. If you're putting in another block, you don't want to bolt the existing manifolds to your new engine if they're leaking.

The log style manifolds are obsolete but you can use the 'center mounted' manifolds & risers used on the '91-93 5.8's

 

[Don S]

Re: 89 OMC 5.8L Cobra Lots of Water in Oil

The one thing I'd do before pulling the motor is a compression test.

Won't help a bit, you can have perfect compression and still have a cracked block. You can also have zero compression and not have any water in the oil.

 

[joewithaboat]

Re: 89 OMC 5.8L Cobra Lots of Water in Oil

I think you already diagnosed it for yourself there...two core plugs popped and a crankcase full of water basically says it all. But, at this point, I would change the oil again, tap the core plugs back in, and see what you get after running it a bit. On the off chance the water got there by rain, and not a crack in the block, it wont be back. But I would expect it to be...core plugs dont typically pop out for no reason, especially not two.

I am very sorry to hear.

I dont know how much you have into this boat, but with a ford engine thats obsolete and expensive to buy parts for...I'd be looking for an out. Assuming the block is freeze damaged, which I would be certain it is, the manifolds are going to be trash as well.

I dont know about Ford Engines being obsolete
I know you dont see them in boats as often as GM stuff. The wrecking yards in Texas still have lots of them

Being a chevy fan id switch to a 350 anyway

 

[bruceb58]

Re: 89 OMC 5.8L Cobra Lots of Water in Oil

I dont know about Ford Engines being obsolete

The engine blocks themselves are available. Just many things attached to that are obsolete and hard to find like exhaust manifolds, fuel injection(if equipped), couplers...

The reason you don't see them in boats since 1995 is that Ford does not support their marine business anymore like GM does.

Being a chevy fan id switch to a 350 anyway

That would be very expensive since you would have many many more parts to change out like transom housing, motor mounts, coupler, accessory mounting brakets...

 

[Raystownboater]

Re: 89 OMC 5.8L Cobra Lots of Water in Oil

Diagnosing the engine is just going to lead you to the purchase of a new/rebuilt long block. I've been there/done that and you'll save yourself time and aggravation by swapping the motor out for the new one just like you are already prepared to do.

 

[Bridar]

Re: 89 OMC 5.8L Cobra Lots of Water in Oil

Won't help a bit, you can have perfect compression and still have a cracked block. You can also have zero compression and not have any water in the oil.

True, but a compression test doesn't cost anything (other than a bit of time). Obviously if the block is hatched then it's hatched. If there is zero compression then at least he will know that while he's pricing out a replacement engine. On the other hand, if the compression is good (as you said) he may have a cracked block OR he might not. The only way to know is to take a closer look by doing subsequent tests. I'll admit, based on what he's said, he likely needs a new engine, but I prefer diagnostics over gut instincts.

Maybe it's just me but before I throw an engine away, I always confirm it's condition, whether I'm working on my own boat or someone else's. Call me cheap.

 

[Bridar]

Re: 89 OMC 5.8L Cobra Lots of Water in Oil

Diagnosing the engine is just going to lead you to the purchase of a new/rebuilt long block. I've been there/done that and you'll save yourself time and aggravation by swapping the motor out for the new one just like you are already prepared to do.

Quite often, "time and aggravation" is all a person can afford. If cost is of little concern for a boat owner then great, let them run out and buy a drop-in engine. Anyone can make that "recommendation". If the boat owner is on a tight budget, then what they need is advise that could save them some money.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: 89 OMC 5.8L Cobra Lots of Water in Oil

If there is zero compression then at least he will know that while he's pricing out a replacement engine. On the other hand, if the compression is good (as you said) he may have a cracked block OR he might not.

We are diagnosing if its a cracked block or not! Compression is a worthless test for this. You pressurize the cooling system to determine if a block is cracked. Sorry, but your logic escapes me.

 

[Bridar]

Re: 89 OMC 5.8L Cobra Lots of Water in Oil

We are diagnosing if its a cracked block or not! Compression is a worthless test for this. You pressurize the cooling system to determine if a block is cracked. Sorry, but your logic escapes me.

If you read post #4 you will see I suggested a pressure test, which I suspect will reveal a great deal. This is only half of the point I was trying to make (that I'd do a bit of diagnosing before writing the engine off, based on water in the oil and the 2 core plugs). My reason for a compression test is that it will give an indication of the condition of the bottom end, and COULD point towards blown head gaskets or warped heads.

 

[joewithaboat]

Re: 89 OMC 5.8L Cobra Lots of Water in Oil

The engine blocks themselves are available. Just many things attached to that are obsolete and hard to find like exhaust manifolds, fuel injection(if equipped), couplers...

The reason you don't see them in boats since 1995 is that Ford does not support their marine business anymore like GM does.

That would be very expensive since you would have many many more parts to change out like transom housing, motor mounts, coupler, accessory mounting brakets...

Bruce,
Such doom and gloom! In this day and age with ebay and craigslist, they are everywhere. A freind of mine works on boats for a living. Small block (ford or chevy)complete used set ups are quite common. At least here they are. The sun ruins the interiors, Folks let them rot out. In the south it is just as common for a boat to be junk beacause of the sun as old man winter.

Get a little creative! The last time i needed one i made a few calls, posted an add, and hade 3 two choose from in 2 days. I got phone calls and emails for a month after i had already bought one.

My dad always liked Fords even back in the late 80's early 90's when i was helping him work on his stuff, Ford always cost a little more and was a little harder to get. I just looked online cause its been a while. Ford manifolds & couplers are about 20% more. They have always been like that, Ford folks are used to it. Its the same at the auto parts store as well.

 

[Raystownboater]

Re: 89 OMC 5.8L Cobra Lots of Water in Oil

Quite often, "time and aggravation" is all a person can afford. If cost is of little concern for a boat owner then great, let them run out and buy a drop-in engine. Anyone can make that "recommendation". If the boat owner is on a tight budget, then what they need is advise that could save them some money.

When the OP states that he is prepared to purchase a new long block, he obviously isnt on a tight budget. Advising him to do diagnostic tests that will, in no way, tell him the condition of the block doesnt help either.

 

[Bridar]

Re: 89 OMC 5.8L Cobra Lots of Water in Oil

When the OP states that he is prepared to purchase a new long block, he obviously isnt on a tight budget. Advising him to do diagnostic tests that will, in no way, tell him the condition of the block doesnt help either.

Did you read the OP where he said; "I'm prepared to buy a new long block but dont want to unless no other way out"? I did.

If your only advise is to blindly replace the engine, then move over and let someone else offer some suggestions that may save this gentleman some money. It's wasteful to replace an engine without first determining if it's worth salvaging. We do this by performing some basic tests. Some of these tests can be done with the engine in the boat, others are best done on an engine stand.

 

[whitejamie99]

Re: 89 OMC 5.8L Cobra Lots of Water in Oil

Thanks to everyone for the informative replies. My co-worker, who is also a boat mechanic, wants to pull the engine at our shop. He says that the crank being in water has rusted and will fail soon and probably catastrophically and of course at the worst possible time. Not knowing the history of the boat, I can both agree and disagree. The engine runs fairly decently on the muffs but I didnt run it for more than a minute as the streaming water out of the core plugs was a big concern.

I think I like the pressure testing idea but I'm leaning to pulling the motor and then seeing whats up. There are some difficulties with where I can keep it as this will be a weekend project. I do like the idea of just trying to find a donor boat with a decent motor for cheap.

Again, thanks to everyone and rest assured - this boat will make it to the water one way or the other - budget or not.