90 hp v4 runaway idle

nightflight

Seaman Apprentice
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Sep 1, 2008
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I purchased a replacement '93 johnson 90 hp v4 for my wellcraft. Tested compression all between 110 and 125. Connected the wiring everything seems to match up with the old kaput( ran with water in the oil tank) '84 model . Fired it up and it wants to run at about 2500-3000 rpm.or very fast 1/2 throttle speed( no tach)
It seems to be sucking fuel from some where it's not supposed to. I'm thinking stuck float, maybe stuck primer, something sending fuel straight to the engine and not the way it's supposed to.
The schrader valve on the manual primer "RED" switch was leaking so I fiddled with it and it idled down it ran about 30 minutes at regular idle rpm with normal response to the throlle.
I swapped primer coils with the '84 and fired it up, now back to fast rpm's.
How can I isolate where the fuel dump is comoing from to avoid unnecessary tear down?
Engine rested on its side in my garage for about a year before I hung it on the boat. Maybe that messed up the float arrangement. It got some rough handling while moving since I only have one good shoulder to muscle it with and can no longer move a 90 by myself.
First thought is to disengage primer lines to the carb base and see if that stops the fast idle. Next I think,, take off fuel line and once the bowls lower the engine should slow down til it runs out of fuel, next put fuel line on and pinch off a carb feed line one at the time to see which carb is sending the fuel.
Assuming it is stuck float??
Then what is the best way to unstick floats? ( if that is the problem)

Should I be able to see fuel coming into the throat without the engine running if the float is stuck or if fuel is bypassing the float valve?

Never had or heard of this one before.

What else could cause the high speed at crank up???

Butterflys and linkages appear normal

Strange discovery not related to carbs same engine, water tee on the pisser line was shooting water on the lower engine block and looks like it was for years( rusty head bolts). Can't find any hose that the tee should have fed. This was probably why the owner couldn't make the engine run right with salt water shooting on coils.
 
D

DJ

Guest
Re: 90 hp v4 runaway idle

I think you answered your own question, Schrader valve. An air leak will cause that situation.

The telltale hose runs to a fitting on the starboard side of the lower engine pan.
 

nightflight

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Re: 90 hp v4 runaway idle

I took off the leaking schader valve with the whole primer assembly replaced it with the '84 primer assembly and the fast idle came back. The leak was squirting up not into the throttle stream.
No leaking and fast idle. Fuel is coming from somewhere.
 

nightflight

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Sep 1, 2008
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Re: 90 hp v4 runaway idle

The line to the telltale was connected but it has a tee going to no where squirting on the block about mid way in the line.
 

Dhadley

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Feb 4, 2001
Messages
16,978
Re: 90 hp v4 runaway idle

I think you'll be looking for an air leak, not a fuel leak, as mentioned. The T in the overboard line is for the water pressure gauge.
 

Randybeall

Petty Officer 1st Class
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May 2, 2008
Messages
319
Re: 90 hp v4 runaway idle

Check your fuel pump. Pin hole in the diaphgram will feed fuel into the crankase for one cylinder and let it run away.
 

nightflight

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Sep 1, 2008
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Re: 90 hp v4 runaway idle

Thanks for the suggestions

Where does the fuel pump feed into the crank case?
Is there a way to disrupt that flow without removing the fuel pump?
I have the fully functional 1984, will the fuel pump exchange? and is it a quick swap out?
Is this scenario saying fuel is leaking in the vacuum that drives the pump or is there another connection?
I'm not certain of the mechanical connection here.
A good exploded view of the fuel system would help.
I've had my hands in all kinds of engines over the years as I'm one of those who can't afford to let a shop replace parts at will.
I also have a compulsion to figure the engineering aspect out.
These mysteries are not supernatural,,,in most cases..
 

noelm

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Mar 8, 2005
Messages
761
Re: 90 hp v4 runaway idle

you are looking for something dumping fuel into the Engine causing the runaway/high idle, when in fact your Engine is probably running lean from an Air leak (like these guys are trying to tell you), so if it has a fuel leak, fix it, but I doubt that is your problem.
 

Randybeall

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May 2, 2008
Messages
319
Re: 90 hp v4 runaway idle

The fuel pump is mounted on the crankcase and is acuated by crankcase vacuum and pressure pulses. Follow the fuel hose from your bulb pump to the engine and on to the fuel pump. Or, back track from the fuel line at the carb to the fuel pump. In frequently asked questions there is an execllent overhaul description complete with pictures. Kits are not very expensive. A test would be to get a piece of line to bypass the fuel pump, use your bulb pump to fill the carbs and get it running. Once any fuel left in the pump was gone you should run normally.
 

nightflight

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Sep 1, 2008
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Re: 90 hp v4 runaway idle

Several have hinted or implied or implore that there is an AIR LEAK.
If so what kind of air leak and where would you suggest an air leak big enough to run the engine up to 1/2 throttle or higher and maintain running.
Are you talking about air around a lose hose clamp?
These engines run with no clamps without this kind of run away.
If there was a leak leaking in air wouldn't it leak fuel out under bulb preassure when the engine is not running?
Can't find a leak like that.
That is what sends me back to looking for fuel getting to the engine.
This does not sound like the engine leaning out when it starves off.
Air without fuel doesn't seem to want to make anything run.air with throttles closed. entering the fuel line under suction would cuasse less fuel and ultimate shut down, right.
I'm puzzled at what you mean. so help me out.
 

david_r

Lieutenant Junior Grade
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Aug 11, 2008
Messages
1,118
Re: 90 hp v4 runaway idle

get some carb cleaner-start her up and spray around the carb gaskets and what not...........if shes suckin air youll know
 

ezeke

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 19, 2003
Messages
12,532
Re: 90 hp v4 runaway idle

Make sure that the advance is not moved forward when you want to idle. Have someone move the warm-up lever all the way up and down and watch the advance to be sure that it moves back when the arm is lowered.
 

Randybeall

Petty Officer 1st Class
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May 2, 2008
Messages
319
Re: 90 hp v4 runaway idle

I am with you on how an air leak can make an engine speed up. If you have the mechanical pieces of an engine in good working order it takes fuel, air, and spark to run. I suspect you have fuel leaking through the fuel pump diaphgram into the crankcase being fed into the engine. The point about making sure the advance is going back to full retard is a good one because more advance at idle will make the engine speed up, it uses fuel from the idle orfice and the transition ports in the carbs if the throttles are not completely closed. At the price of a fuel pump kit it is a good maintaince item anyhow. Have you read the FAQ at the beginning of this section about fuel pumps?
 
D

DJ

Guest
Re: 90 hp v4 runaway idle

get some carb cleaner-start her up and spray around the carb gaskets and what not...........if shes suckin air youll know

That's what I would do.

Don't spray it into the carbs, just around them and the intake manifoold.

If you are dumping fuel into the engine, it would choke out.
 

nightflight

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Sep 1, 2008
Messages
40
Re: 90 hp v4 runaway idle

MYSTERY SOLVED
Well guys I tried it all no leaking of air anywhere and after swapping out the VRO pump there wasn't much left on the front that hadn't been swapped.
It wasn't the pump diaphram, ran the same with the other good pump.

I pulled the carbs off of the '84. Put them on and she purrs like a kitten. The 84 has the real metal carbs,, the '93 had the plastic bowls.

Apparently the "REBUILD" that was done on the carbs was a goof by a goof.
Apparently one or both carbs were stuck, possibly float put in wrong (I didn't tear them open yet), dumping fuel straight to the engine causing the high revs.
The old carbs were rebuilt by my deceased OMC expert.
I wonder if ethanol could be causing some of this?

Problem stuck or bad floats.

Kinda what I originally thought.

Thanks for the Help..
 

nightflight

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Sep 1, 2008
Messages
40
Re: 90 hp v4 runaway idle

MYSTERY SOLVED
Well guys I tried it all no leaking of air anywhere and after swapping out the VRO pump there wasn't much left on the front that hadn't been swapped.
It wasn't the pump diaphram, ran the same with the other good pump.

I pulled the carbs off of the '84. Put them on and she purrs like a kitten. The 84 has the real metal carbs,, the '93 had the plastic bowls.

Apparently the "REBUILD" that was done on the carbs was a goof by a goof.
Apparently one or both carbs were stuck, possibly float put in wrong (I didn't tear them open yet), dumping fuel straight to the engine causing the high revs.
The old carbs were rebuilt by my deceased OMC expert.
I wonder if ethanol could be causing some of this?

Problem stuck or bad floats.

Kinda what I originally thought.

Thanks for the Help..
 
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